74. How are we like the Good Thief? Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen's reflection on the Cross, Suffering and the Good Thief - how we can carry our cross with Jesus

We return to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen with Allan Smith, and have an in-depth conversation about why his preaching still converts people today, from television fame to a life built on mercy and the Cross. 

We also pray our way through key themes from Christ’s Seven Last Words, especially forgiveness, confession, Mary’s motherhood, and how to suffer without wasting pain. 

• Sheen’s impact as a Catholic evangelist on radio and television, and the first Catholic bishop to win an Emmy Award, and why people still discover him now 
• Steps for Archbishop Sheen, from being known as "Servant of God" to Venerable to beatification and canonization 
• Why Jesus begins the Cross with mercy, and what it asks of us in daily relationships 
• The “University of Unlearning” as a practical image for confession and freedom from sin 
• Choosing ignorance of evil without rejecting truth 
• The Good Thief as a model of humble repentance and bold faith 
• “Remember me” as an antidote to forgetting Christ in busy life 
• The Blessed Virgin Mary at the foot of the Cross and learning to remain 
• Turning suffering into an offering and refusing to waste pain 
To keep updated about tickets and the event, please visit bishopsheentoday.com 

The Vatican announced that Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen will be beatified on Sept. 24, 2026 in St. Louis, Missouri. For more info and to find out about tickets, please visit:
https://celebratesheen.com

To visit Allan Smith's ministry, books of Archbishop Sheen, and the Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen Mission Society of Canada, please visit:
https://bishopsheentoday.com

Allan Smith is also on YouTube:  @AllanSmithandTheSchoolOfSheen  

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Thank you + God bless!
A Blessed Triduum to you and your family, and a Happy Easter!
I would like to apologize for the technical difficulties. I am not sure why there was an overlapping of audio (it was not recorded that way) and there were also glitchy parts which I did not notice at all while I had my headphones one. Friends, unfortunately, technology can also be a target of spiritual warfare. Please say a prayer for our podcast apostolate, if you found these types of episodes helpful. Please share with a friend!
God bless and thank you for your patience and understanding

Transcript

Seven Last Words To Begin

Co-Host 0:00

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." "Amen. I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." "Woman, behold your son.... Behold your mother." "I thirst." "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" "It is finished." "Father, in your hand I command my spirit."

Allan Smith 0:36

And he says, "There is the University of Unlearning. It's a beautiful university." And you say, "Well, how do I enroll in that university?" And he says, "It's the confessional." He says, "You get to go into the confessional with this list of all your sins." And it's like the Lord erases it and says, "I don't know what they are. I don't know your sins." And you have this blank sheet again. Because it's easier for God to write on a blank piece of paper than it is on one with a lot of scribbles on it. And so it's this beautiful teaching here. There's something beautiful about not knowing. Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And Our Lady's saying, "I know not." And so if we can take that away from us, let's get to confession this confess this Lent. Let us enroll in the University of Unlearning. And let's not be so curious and wanting to know everything. There is a beauty in not

Holy Week Preview And Big News

Allan Smith 1:26

knowing.

Sheila Nonato 1:26

Sisters in Christ, this Holy Week we will be featuring Allan Smith of the Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen Mission Society of Canada. Mr. Smith is back to chat with us about who Bishop Sheen was, a great evangelist nicknamed "God's Microphone," and the first Catholic bishop to win an Emmy Award. How did he live by his famous saying, Unless souls are saved, nothing is saved? And in the second half of the interview, we reflect upon Bishop Sheen's reflection on Christ's seven last words on the cross.

Sheila Nonato 1:56

What did Jesus mean when he said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do?" How does the story of the good thief reflect our own path to redemption? How can we carry our cross in the midst of our own sufferings? And some exciting news to share the Dicastery for the Causes of Saints has announced that Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen will be beatified in St. Louis, Missouri on September 24th. To keep updated about tickets and the event, please visit bishopsheen today.com Thank you for joining us, friends, and have a blessed, blessed Holy Week. Thank you and God bless.

Speaker 1 2:40

In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen. Dear Blessed Mother, we come as your children. We come at the foot of the cross to learn from your Son. These beautiful words, his seven last words. May they teach us, may they form us, may they help us in this journey along this veil of tears. And so we ask your blessing upon our program, our ministries, and our families. And so we pray. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Our Lady Seat of Wisdom, pray for us. Venerable Archbishop Fulton Jay Sheen, pray for us. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Who Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen Was and What He was Best Known For

Sheila Nonato 3:33

Thank you very much for that beautiful prayer. And welcome back, Sisters in Christ, to the Veil Armoir Podcast. And we have, uh, back with us uh Mr. Allan Smith, director of the Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen Mission Society of Canada. And there's been great interest from your past episode with us, uh, because of the renewed interest in Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen. And could you please sort of for those who are not aware of the impact that he had on the church, um, who was Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen and what is he best known for?

Allan Smith 4:04

Right. Yeah, I think it's this idea of, yeah, I've heard something about him, but tell me more. And , uh, I like to say to people that Archbishop Sheen, uh, was known in America, uh, fondly for his years on television. Um, he had 30 million viewers every week in his "Life is Worth Living" uh broadcast. But of course, people before his television years remember him on the radio, where he would come uh each week giving a sermon on the Catholic faith, and it was called "The Catholic Hour." And of course, he was a prolific writer, writing 66 books and teaching at the Catholic University of America.

Allan Smith 4:46

But I think it was his television years that won us over, gave him notoriety. And of course, I think we all looked at him and said, ah, there's something beautiful about being Catholic. He's having fun. He's having fun, he's he's got a joy uh in his life. And yet he would still talk about suffering and know that, you know, it's part of the journey. Uh he would point to the cross and point to our blessed Lord, but he just blended it so that you said, ah, there is joy, there is sorrow, but there's peace, especially when you're Catholic, because you have something to hang on to. And there was hundreds of thousands of souls that came to the church, came to Christ through Fulton Sheen's inspiration, including my father, who is a convert to the faith because of Fulton Sheen. And so this story plays itself out time and time again, um, not just in the 50s and the 60s, but here in the year 2026, there are still people coming to the faith and becoming Catholic because of Fulton Sheen, them watching him, his old reruns or reading some of his books. It's amazing the power of conversion.

Allan Smith 6:01

And it's a power of persuasion uh in a way, but uh Fulton Sheen, he would just give us ideas to think about. And uh I think we're gonna talk a little bit about the seven last words today, because it is the season of Lent. Uh, but still, food for thought, things to think about to say, "I I never thought of it that way. Thank you, Fulton Sheen." So uh again, he's known by millions all over the world, an international star. Uh, but still now with his uh the uh Vatican officially declaring that uh we could proceed with beatification mass, I think everybody's back on the Sheen train saying, wow, I want more. I want more. So uh, and I'm blessed that I sit on the board of directors for the Sheen Foundation in Peoria, Illinois. It's a privilege I've had since 2013. And so I've been there for all these years of ups and downs with the cause, the pauses, the delays, uh, but now, of course, the anticipation that uh later this fall we will have the beatification ceremony in the United States, have 70,000, 80,000 people there. It's going to be a great event. So I'm looking forward to it. Looking forward to it.

Sheila Nonato 7:16

And so

The Cause For Canonization

Sheila Nonato 7:17

when you mentioned the Archbishop Fulton John Sheen Foundation, which is the official promoter of the cause for the canonization of Archbishop Sheen. So if I'm not mistaken, it's the the sort of the journey towards canonization began in 1998. Is that correct?

Allan Smith 7:34

Uh it was in 2002 when the cause was officially opened. Okay, Bishop Daniel Daniel Jenki went to the Vatican and um presented the papers to say we'd like to open up his cause for canonization. And of course, they declare him servant of God. It's a beautiful title the church gives to those candidates. And so he was officially um under the beautiful title of servant of God Fulton Shein. And that was in 2002. And then we collected testimonies and started to correspond with the Vatican. And uh again, after many years, they finally said, wow, uh, there is evidence here that Fulton Sheen led a life of heroic virtue, and so they declared him venerable. Uh, they looked at his 66 books, they watched all of his television shows and found no error in them. And so the church declared him venerable, which means to make imitation of or to venerate. So um a beautiful title in 2012.

Allan Smith 8:38

And then there was the miracle that was attributed to Fulton Sheen's intercession, where a child was um had no signs of life for 61 minutes and came back to life. And that um miracle was attested to and then approved by the Vatican in 2019. And of course, then it declared that they declared him blessed and then said, okay, let's have the ceremony. But there was a delay in the ceremony. And I always say to people, the church has declared him blessed, uh, just as if you were engaged or betrothed. You say, I am betrothed to this person, but you're not married until the nuptial mass. And Fultonstein isn't blessed officially until the beatification mass. So the church has made the pronouncement that he's blessed, but until he we actually have the mass, uh, he's not. So, but that will come soon. That will come soon. Uh, but again, that process started in 2002 and elevated to a level of uh venerable in 2012, and then in 2019, again, we had another great announcement, but here we are in 2026. It's going to happen, and um, we're very happy, very happy.

Sheila Nonato 9:55

And so

Beatification Plans: This September!

Sheila Nonato 9:56

are we anticipating it in September, sometime in the fall? Is that sort of what you're hearing?

Allan Smith 10:01

Where we are today at the time of this recording is that we're in negotiations with the Vatican. The way the Vatican uh works is they say, okay, you need our representative to be there at the event. And we do. We need the Vatican uh delegate to be present at the beatification ceremony. And but then they have to check their calendar. Uh we have our favorite dates that we'd like to do this on, but then again, it's their schedule. Um, so we're hoping for September. Uh maybe it'll be October, but it will be in that time of September or October this year. And um, the city, um, we have a few um uh candidates that are running it high in the running. And again, you have to have a facility that's an indoor stadium that can seat 60,000, 70,000 people. And um, again, you have to kind of figure out in America where those stadiums are. So um, yeah, I'm sworn to secrecy right now, but uh, I think it'll all make sense when we finally announce it. So uh it's gonna be good. We're really um just so glad that people will be able to celebrate with us. And of course, we have a website that's simply titled Celebrate Sheen, and we'll give the address uh later in the program. But again, we want to celebrate Sheen and uh not just be kind of um done with the party at the end of this year. No, we want it to continue because the more we celebrate Sheen and his writings, the more souls come to Christ. And so we know his formula works. It works, and uh it will work for many generations to come. And so we need to keep celebrating him. But again, good news is right around the corner. And his

Miracles

Allan Smith 11:53

canonization process, this is what we say, like it takes one miracle for the church then to declare the candidate blessed, and then it's the second miracle that uh makes him eligible or her eligible for sainthood. Now, the Vatican has said to us, um, you can take um, you know, miracles and start to document them and apply them, present them to the Vatican for the second miracle. And I'm happy to say that we have five miracles that have been documented um over the last couple years. Um, and again, we're very uh happy to present uh one or two of these miracles to the Vatican for their scrutiny. And so we may be the uh the quickest turnaround between beatification and canonization in history. Um sometimes it takes years for you know the second miracle to come through. Uh but we have uh five very good miracles that we um, of course, our phone rings every day, I think, at the Sheen Foundation of uh little miracles. Uh but there are some big ones too, some good medical miracles that have happened. So uh we will keep you posted with that also. But uh I am here to tell you that um things are looking very good for his canonization process. Uh we have to get through the beatification first, but I think canonization will be very soon after the beatification.

Sheila Nonato 13:26

Very

Praying For Archbishop Sheen’s Intercession

Sheila Nonato 13:27

good. And so in terms of praying for through for the inter or through the intercess intercession of Bishop Sheen, um is that sort of official now that people can pray for his help because he's gonna become a blessed, or has it always been the case that you can you can pray to the show?

Allan Smith 13:44

Yeah, it's always been when the church um um presents when the church presents to well, I let's just say when the church makes the pronouncement that he is or she is the servant of God, um it's it right away then you can start uh asking for prayers of intercession. So in 2002 we started to distribute prayer cards uh asking people to pray, because we know that we need miracles to make saints, and we need those little miracles of conversion to help us all become the saints of tomorrow. I mean, that's our mission is to become saints. And so uh again, praying for the intercession of these saints to be uh begins when they become servant of God. So uh we've always had those prayer cards and we've always encouraged people to pray. And I remember when Padre Pio was wasn't a saint, people would give me prayer cards saying, Please pray to Padre Pio. We want him to be a saint one day. And of course, he became a saint. So uh prayer works, it really does.

Why Christ's Seven Last Words Matter

Sheila Nonato 14:51

Yes, amazing. And so today I wanted to talk about the book that you had edited, um, "The Seven Last Words of Christ Explained: A classic collection of Sheen's preaching on the Cross." And we probably won't get through all seven words, but to sort of set it up. So you also have a website on YouTube called Allan Smith and The School of Sheen. And in one of the videos, it's called "The Best Series of Lenten Talks" by Archbishop Sheen. And I just wanted to sort of uh give the reader, uh, the listeners some food for thought. Um, so this is Bishop Sheen's own words. So he was talking about at that time, um, sort of he said humanism is sort of a religion in in and of itself, uh, without calling itself a religion, but he was saying that it people back then, and I guess now, um, were searching or looking for a God without justice, a morality without religion, a Christ without his Cross, a Christianity without sacrifice, and a kingdom of God without redemption. And as I was saying, it seems to sort of mirror our own society now. How it almost seems prophetic that, you know, and obviously in the Bible too, the prophets have prophesied this sort of, you know, the fallen man and needing Christ. Um, but how how prophetic was Bishop Sheen in terms of what he saw, what society was falling into and what they what we needed to be saved?

Allan Smith 16:18

Right.

Sheen’s Prophetic Read On Culture

Allan Smith 16:19

Yeah. Now, Fulton Sheen, what he had, he had two I can't I say secret advantages, okay? Uh one, he was listening to confessions. You know, as a priest, you know, they hear all these confessions. And so he kind of knew what was ailing society. He kind of knew what the problems were. Of course, he was counseling movie stars, politicians, uh, you know, communist uh workers. Um, he had the pulse on society. And of course, he was listening to their woes. Um, but he also studied history. And I think this is what's important is Fultenstein just, I guess, revisits history lessons.

Allan Smith 17:03

And so when he talks about the humanist, when he talks about the intelligentsia, uh, when he talks about the moderns, you know, he's really reading from the communist playbook that has infiltrated many uh university campuses and the minds and hearts of so many. And so he would warn us, and he'd always just say, beware of this thinking. And I think it would just say, you're right. You're right, you know. And I think that's the idea that Fulton Sheen was saying as a teacher and a preacher and a bit of a prophet, to say, let's look at history, and the lessons are already there. And so we'd remind us of those painful lessons. And uh, but again, the pain of the cross and the pain of our Lord's suffering and his last words, I think rings true so beautifully.

Allan Smith 17:54

And, you know, I think this is when people ask me to say, why did you spend so much time editing and compiling books of Sheen talking about the seven last words? I started to see the history of his preaching. And Fulton Sheen, if you ever watch a video, you can find it on YouTube, and it's called His Last Words. And it was the last recorded Good Friday address that Fulton Sheen gave in 1979. And he was getting to the ambo, and he, of course, greeted everyone and thanked them for their applause. And he said, you know, this is the 58th consecutive year that I've preached on our blessed Lord's Passion and his seven last words. And so I said, 58 consecutive years. And I started to go back and I started to see his writings year after year after year after year. He took the seven last words and he made a catechesis on different topics. And I'll give you a few examples. You know, in 1933 he gave his classic um uh talk on the seven last words, and that little booklet has sold hundreds of thousands of copies. And so he introduced the great sermon from Mount Calvary to the world.

Allan Smith 19:14

And I say it's a sermon because it is, we think of Jesus' sermon on the Mount, which is the Beatitudes, but then there's this great sermon from Mount Calvary, and that is his seven last words. And I think of how he was using this opportunity every holy season of light to give a catechesis. So in 33, he talks about the seven last words. Then in 1935, he takes the seven last words and he ties it into the seven petitions of the Our Father. You know, he'd say, like, Our Father, who art in heaven, and they'd say, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Thy kingdom come, and he'd say, Behold your mother. She helps bring about the kingdom, you know. And and people started saying, He's connecting the dots. He's teaching me the Our Father and the Seven Last Words together, and how it's even a more powerful prayer now. And then the next year he would talk about the Mass and the Seven Last Words, and how the Holy Mass is got seven components, and the seven last words tie into each one of those parts of the Mass. You know, the Confiteor at the beginning, "Father, forgive." The Offertory, the Good Thief, of course, offering his life and saying, Remember me, you know, and it keeps going.

Allan Smith 20:35

I thirst is the Eucharist, communion. Um, and you know, so again, you you start going, "This is amazing. How how does Fulton Sheen get this?" And he of course he says, "Well, because everything has to go through the cross. Everything goes through the cross." In 1939, he talked about the seven last words and the seven deadly sins, and how the seven last words are the antidote, the antidote for the seven deadly sins. And you go, Oh, oh, show me, you know, now now people are saying, Oh yeah, okay, tell me. I said, Well, the sin of anger, Father, forgive. The sin of lust, behold your mother, you know, the sin of envy, you know, the sin of envy is like, um, you know, it's the good thief because he had no envy in him. His fellow thief, he had envy, because he said to Jesus, if you be the Christ, get us down from here. But the good thief didn't say that. He asked for the right things. You know, the sin of laziness. Our Lord says, it is finished. He got his work done.

Allan Smith 21:39

And and I go on and on. And you know, it goes year after year after year. Fultonschen kept giving a catechesis tied in to the seven last words. And that's why it was easy for me to put together that anthology that you held up saying the seven last words of Christ explained. Because Foltenstein explains it nine times. Different ways. I took nine books of Fulton Sheen and put it into the anthology so that you can look at the words Father forgive them for they know not what they do nine ways. You can look at I Thirst nine ways, you know. And I think this is where I've grown as a Catholic, in that I've I've kind of say, I'm learning my faith, but I'm really learning the power of the cross and the power of this great sermon from Mount Calvary, the seven lost words. So what's there? Uh she loves it. You know, you got me going, so I can keep going in there. But uh there's so much in this beautiful sermon.

unknown 22:38

Yeah.

Sheila Nonato 22:38

Yeah.

"Father Forgive Them:" Jesus' First Words on the Cross

Sheila Nonato 22:39

And so let's let's dig in, I guess, uh just dive in. Um the first meditation, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." And I just wanted if you would allow me to sort of read from the book, uh, page 21, if uh our leader listeners would like to get this book, page 21. The congregations anxiously awaited his first word. The executioners expected him to cry, for everyone pinned onto Gibbet of the Cross had done it before him. So they were expecting him to say words, I guess, of blasphemy, of cursing, and yet words of love, of forgiveness. Can you explain to us Bishop Sheen's sort of explanation of why Our Lord started with "Forgive them, Father?"

Allan Smith 23:20

Yeah. Well, you know, he starts with mercy. And I think we've lived through, you know, the pontificate of Pope Francis, where he really preached mercy, um, you know, going out into the peripheries. And we've seen it with the pontificate of John Paul II. Um, again, our Lord's mission was a mission of mercy. You know, when you think of what our Lord stood for, so it just makes sense for him to begin this great sermon with mercy. And I think it's also this great love he has for us. It's like he's making pardon for us right away, saying, Father, father, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Forgive them. It's okay. Um, again, he's interceding for us right from the get-go. And I think that's why people were so surprised. They were expecting him, because history showed that people usually utter blasphemies.

Allan Smith 24:19

They've had to cut the tongues out of those people being crucified because it was it was like it was terrible, you know? But yet he surprised so many by starting off with this beautiful um act of kindness, this act of mercy. And I think that's what we have to learn from this. Fultenstein's saying, you need to offer some mercy. Because I know that many of you are holding grudges, you're holding resentment, you're you're you're you're just letting um you know this hate work on you. And again, there's that lead, forgive, mercy. And I think that's the hard part. And I think a lot of times I say to people, we always have Lenten challenges. And of course we say, I'm gonna give up coffee or give up sweets, but how about we work on relationships and giving up some of our resentment or our reservations or, you know, it's that thing, but this word is so powerful, Father forgive. Um, but it again is something we have to spend time with, to meditate, and to just ask for the grace, you know, the virtue.

Allan Smith 25:34

I think it's um, you know, Fulton Sheen would uh propose the virtue of fortitude because our Lord had great fortitude. He carried the cross to Calvary and He still had to endure even more suffering, hanging on the cross for three hours, but have that fortitude. And so we have to pray for that virtue of fortitude to say, help me to forgive, Father. Help me to forgive my brother or to forgive my neighbor, or to just kind of not say to lighten up, but just to say, teach me how to be merciful, because you are mercy, Lord. So again, there's so much there in that first word, but uh you you lead in well to say, yeah, they were shocked. And I think people are shocked too when we say, I just want to say I'm sorry. I just want to apologize. I think what? You know, so again, it's it's powerful, it's very powerful.

Sheila Nonato 26:29

Yes,

The Beauty Of Not Knowing

Sheila Nonato 26:30

absolutely. And just sticking with the first few the first word, last words of of Christ, um just going to page 81 to 84, the ninth meditation and the value of ignorance. So one of my trying, I'm trying, it's hard. Trying to give up social media. Like if I'm gonna be on social media for an hour, I have to, I'm telling myself, psyching myself up to pray for an hour. You know, I have to spend actually maybe more time with the Lord, not maybe, yes, more time with the Lord than my phone. And um, it is a struggle. But going to the this really helped me a lot, actually, in terms of the ignorance, the issue of ignorance of not of evil, sorry, not of truth, not ignorance of truth, but ignorance of evil, as Fulton Sheen had written. Um, that, you know, the no-not. Would you be able to explain that? There's sort of a mirror, mirroring of the words of our Lord and and Mother Mary.

Allan Smith 27:23

Yeah. And it's almost like, you know, I think this is where Fulton Sheen was saying, have a relationship with her. Uh, I'm not saying to you, everyone, can you pretend and role play? But again, what our lady did with her first word that uh was recorded in Sacred Scripture, the angel appeared to her and you know, she and asked her to um, you know, be the mother of God. And of course she said, How could this be? Because I know not man. But I think what Fulton Sheen is saying is that there's a beauty in not knowing. Um, some people would say it's the sin of curiosity. Um we live in a world of know-it-alls, but Fultonshin said so many people in the confessional would come and have these regrets. They say, I wish I hadn't stole my first dollar. I wish I hadn't had my first drink. I wish I hadn't associated with those people.

Allan Smith 28:23

How I wish I could not know them anymore. Like those regrets. And so there's a beauty in not knowing. And Fultonstein then gives the beautiful remedy for this condition. And he says, there is the university of unlearning. It's a beautiful university. And you say, Well, how do I enroll in that university? And he says, it's the confessional. He says you get to go into the confessional with this list of all your sins, and it's like the Lord erases it and says, I don't know what they are. I don't know your sins. And you have this blank sheet again. Because it's easier for God to write on a blank piece of paper than it is on one with a lot of scribbles on it. And so it's this beautiful um teaching here. T

Allan Smith 29:13

here's something beautiful about not knowing. Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. And our lady's saying, know not. And so if we can take that away from us, let's get to confession this confess this Lent. Let us enroll in the university of unlearning, and let's not be so uh, you know, um curious, you know, and wanting to know everything. There is a beauty in not knowing. And so, and I think again, we've had those regrets where we said, I wish I didn't know that. I wish I hadn't learned that. So uh again, something there. So guard, we need to guard guard our senses, guard our minds, guard a lot of things. So it's good. But that's a great talk that uh picking up on that not knowing.

Parenting Phones And Guarding Innocence

Sheila Nonato 29:58

Yes, and um actually I was sort of when I read that, I was sort of trying to apply it to, you know, my everyday life as a mother. Um, because right now my kids are preteens, and at school, you know, there's the phone. They're not allowed to use it during school hours, but they do um the friends communicate after hour, uh, you know, after school or or during the weekend. And my my my children don't have the phone. So my child's question was, what you know, I said, there's, you know, it's there's bad things on the phone. That's why I don't want you to go there. And adults struggle with this. And she said, Well, what what is so bad about it? And I said, I don't think you need to know exactly what evil is out there.

Sheila Nonato 30:45

I just need you to trust me that it's not good. So anyway, I just didn't want to explain, you know, I don't want to scare her. I mean, it's there's already enough to be scared of, you know, in the world today. But sort of as he was saying, the ignorance is not of truth, but ignorance of evil that you don't need to know there are child predators and what do they do to the children. I mean, I don't want to really scandalize or traumatize my children to tell them like, but yeah, I just thought it was an innocent question.

Sheila Nonato 31:12

What is so bad about the internet? But I guess going back to the to Adam and Eve and you know, God telling them, just don't eat from this fruit because it's not good for you. And I guess they were tempted by Satan to want to know more. And I guess sometimes there is that is also our temptation, right? Is you know, we we kind of want to know more than this person or that person, or maybe even like somewhat closer to what you know the the wisest person on earth would be, maybe even God, right? That's and that's where our downfall is, is when we we assume that god-like status or we make ourselves idols, which is kind of rampant today, right? As a lot of things are idols for us now, the you know, social media, the phone, money, power is still there, um, as always. But how did Bishop Sheen sort of stay humble despite you know all of the success that he has seen? He's won

Humility Through Detachment

Sheila Nonato 32:09

the Emmy, he'd won the Emmy, and uh, you know, he was famous uh for being an evangelist on TV and on the radio. How did he stay humble?

Allan Smith 32:19

Well, I think he realized that you know, money was to be used for for God, and influence was to be used for God. Like he he wrote in his autobiography that he regretted that he didn't flee the crowds. Sometimes he got caught up in in the moment. But generally he would always live for others, and he would give away everything that he that he received. Um, you and I are trying to save for a rainy day, we're trying to pay down our mortgage, where um we get things to purchase for children and grandchildren.

Allan Smith 32:56

But Fulton Sheen had millions of dollars come through his hands and always giving it to the poor, making sure that the poor were taken care of. So he had that disposition that money was to be used for God, and his fame was to be used for God, you know, that he got to evangelize to these Hollywood movie stars and these um, you know, rich and influential people because of his position. And uh so he always used it for God. And I think that's why he was able to stay humble was because he just kind of knew these are just things. Uh what's really important is heaven. I mean, he took the Emmy Award that he won and he gave it to his um his neigh his niece, and it was sitting on the radiator when he came, she came in to visit him. And she's there, what are you doing?

Allan Smith 33:49

Well, it's just a thing, it's just an award. It's a you know, like, and so um he gave it away, you know, and um gave it to a family member because it was just things. So he kind of knew what was important, things of heaven, but this worldly stuff is to be used for God's kingdom, and I think that's what kept him grounded, was that and um I think we would we would love to learn a valuable lesson from Fulton Sheen, because we are attached to so many things, but uh he had detachment is what he did.

Saint Dismas, The Penintent Thief, And The Courage To Repent

Sheila Nonato 34:19

So yes, that's beautiful, and um so in terms of I guess going back to the book, um, one of the last words was also thou shalt be with me in paradise. And page 97 of the second meditation, um, for this uh saying that Jesus said, Um Amen. I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise. And as he had written, Bishop Sheen, he was saying that God's name was hallowed by the recognition of his power and glory, and that the good thief recognized God's power despite his powerlessness, and that God and also recognized God's glory despite his defeat. And and can you tell me about sort of the story about Dismas? Is this I I guess if if for those who are not aware, what what what was the story behind the thing?

Allan Smith 35:10

So I mean you have these two thieves, one that is uh that are nailed to crosses on either side of Jesus. And remember that um Saint Dismas was the good thief, and that of course the other thief sometimes his name um uh escapes me. But you know, we know we hear of the interaction, and and I think that's what inspires so many of us, and I I think Sheen brought this to our attention. First of all, he mentioned what you had just said, that the good thief figured out that there was something hallowed, something holy about Jesus. And that part of the Our Father where we say, Hallowed be thy name.

Allan Smith 35:50

And I think we, especially in society, uh don't reverence the name of Christ, the name of God. We hear people blaspheming all the time. And, you know, the good thief uh uttered some blasphemy at the beginning, uh, but again, he looked upon our Lord and saw a king. Uh I think there was enough dry kindling in his heart that that spark of love from Jesus, hearing the words Father forgive, ignited that fire in his soul. But again, there's that idea that what I love about the good thief is his courage to reprimand his fellow thief. You know, his fellow thief was saying, Jesus, if you be the Christ, use that power you have and get us down. And I guess the good thief said, Do you not fear God? Like he said those words, like, do you not fear God? We deserve this. We're guilty as charged, we deserve this death. He's innocent. He's innocent. And so when he made that profession of faith, of just standing up for goodness, standing up for what is right, you know, he was making that confession.

Allan Smith 37:04

He was saying, I am a sinner, I am a thief. And, you know, that confession was heard by our Lord. And our Lord then said, This day you'll be with me in paradise, you know, after those beautiful words, remember me. So I think it's this idea, have courage, stand up, be accounted for. Uh it's difficult to offer fraternal correction. It's difficult to bring up these topics, uh, but yet there's that benefit of doing that. And the good thief received a beautiful reward. Um, so again, uh, they are not there. There's a lot there. But I love what Fulton Sheen said, you know, the good thief was a thief right to the end. He stole heaven. He stole heaven. So I hope to steal heaven too, you know, one day. So it's all good.

"Jesus, Remember Me ..." And Not Forgetting Christ

Sheila Nonato 38:01

And um, and I forget now w what um Bishop Sheen had said about this, but when uh the good thief he when he said remember me, he didn't say save me, give me the kingdom, you know, put me on the right hand of the father. Like he was very humble. He just said, Remember me. Um, what is that lesson for us that sort of, you know, he was beside Christ. I think he could have asked you for anything. But um he just said, remember.

Allan Smith 38:28

You know, many of our your listeners and viewers know me as the Holy Face, um you know, uh an apostle of the holy face or a holy face ambassador, and uh have images of the holy face everywhere. And yet I'd like to say that, and Fulton Sheen said this, he says, one of the great tragedies in our world today is not so much that people hate Christ, but they forget him. They forget him. It's almost like Jesus who. And I always think of how, you know, when I look on the holy face image, and I have one here right by my desk here, I I just when I look at the holy face image, I almost think of our Lord then making this response to me saying, Remember me. You know, the good thief looked at our Lord and said, Remember me. And he heard the beautiful response. But our Lord looks at us every day and says, Remember me. Because we head out the door, we get into our busy routines, and we forget him. We forget him. And so those beautiful words remember me echo in my ears often and hopefully echo in the ears of others, that Jesus is asking to be remembered. And um, so there's something there. But again, the good thief had that point where he had to think about his life. He knew that he only had a few moments left in the earth.

Allan Smith 39:54

And I think we're all wired for heaven in some way. And he saw that opportunity to say, This is my ticket to heaven, this is the king, this is the one. And uh, and that's why he just acted in faith. He made his profession of faith. He made his confession, and he made a profession of faith, saying, Remember me. And um, we know the ending. We know the ending. So it's just those words, remember me. Hopefully we'll remember Jesus, but especially during the season of Lent. We all start off well, we all get our ashes, we all think of Jesus, but give us a week, and it's like, Jesus who? Oh, sorry, and I don't I mean I say that uh it's you know in jokingly, but seriously too, because we are all guilty, and Fulton Steen said that. One of the great tragedies in our world today is not that we hate Jesus, it's just that we forget Jesus.

Sheila Nonato 40:49

So Yes, it's uh yeah, when the busyness comes, that's when we kind of forget. Um, you know, oh we have uh we have to speak to our Lord. He I used to sort of leave it at the end of the day, but actually my husband says when you when you don't have time, that's when you pray. That's when you need to pray. So I'm I'm trying my best to at the beginning of, you know, when I wake up, say hello to our Lord instead of looking at my phone. Sometimes it doesn't work out. I'm trying, it's true, I'm it's a struggle. But for those who, you know, it's now the second week of Lent, um, struggling with their resolutions. Um, what would Bishop Sheen say to encourage to continue on and even after Lent continue the good habits to his mother you're trying to develop during Lent?

The Blessed Virgin Mary’s Help For Our crosses

Allan Smith 41:48

Time and time again, I I could, you know, Fulton Sheen would always recite that beautiful poem by uh Mary Plunkett, uh lovely lady dressed in blue. Um he would he would say, you know, go to her. She will help you. Um, you know, she is the refuge of sinners. We th we think of that great title that's been given to her. And yet I think this is where mothers encourage, mothers um form, and uh and Fulton Sheen said this, you know, our blessed Lord spent 30 years with her. You know, yes, he spent three hours on the cross, and he spent three years teaching and preaching, but he spent ten times more time than that with her. So spending time with her is the key. It's the key because she knows what it's like to um be she knows what it's like to be in a difficult situation. I think of those years in Egypt that she was a refugee and struggled, but she had to endure and make do. Um she had difficult moments in her life and many challenges, but she had the Lord.

Allan Smith 43:02

And I think that's what she can teach us is to remind us, but we have the Lord. You have the Lord in the tabernacle at the church down the street. You have the Lord in your heart, he's with you, and so she would always encourage us. And of course, I think that how Saint John was so blessed to have, you know, he took her into her his home. And she was he was formed by her, and of course, she mothered the apostles. When our blessed Lord went to heaven, he left the apostles with her and said, She will teach you. Just do what I did, live with her, stay with her, learn from her. And and I think that's what Foldensheen would just say. You know, go to Mary and she'll always point us to Jesus. She'll always bring us to Jesus. But go to her and know that she has suffered. Um, you know, she suffers like you, she understands your pain. But she's your mother that cares and loves you. And she's obedient to God's command. Like we always think, you know, Jesus said, If you love me, you'll keep my commandments. But he said to our lady, Behold your son, behold your children. Like it's like, and she would always say, Well, the Lord asked me to take care of you, so I'm gonna take care of you. So uh there we go. There we go. But again, go to Mary, go to Mary.

Sheila Nonato 44:33

Yes,

Holy Resilience and Sanctified Strength: What it means for Mother Mary to have Stayed At The Cross To The End

Sheila Nonato 44:34

and um on the Cross, you know, the poignant scene of Our Lady with St. John and in the in the Bible it says she was standing, and I think, you know, it's a silent but strong witness that she was not on the I mean, uh obviously perfectly acceptable to be crying, and I'm sure she was, but she was not on the ground crying, or she I mean, for me, I would probably not want to see my child suffer. It's just too difficult. I'd rather take the place, you know. But our lady stood. She stood there with her son to bear to see everything, what he had suffered. And it just reminded me of um on page 100 of your book, of the book you edited about uh Bishop Fultonshin's uh seven last words uh homilies, sermons.

Sheila Nonato 45:19

Um, he he wrote, Our Lord does not suffer alone on the cross, he suffers with us. And I think bringing that suffering close face to face, um personal, personalizing the suffering. It sort of human humanizes that the cross that we each carry, that we can also see Christ and we can see him looking at his mother and his mother looking up at him, and how that uh brings us not comf what is the word? Not comfort, but maybe consolation. Yeah that God is with us even though He was He would say this in the What would Bishop King say about the cross itself?

Allan Smith 46:02

He'd say remain. Remain. There's something about staying, and this is what our lady did. She stayed to the very end. Um she had to let everything run its course, but she stayed, and she remained. I mean, she journeyed the whole um way of the cross with him. You know, of course she met him, but you know that she was right there, right behind him or ahead of him, but she was there. So there's something about remaining that's so important. And this is the thing about uh being Catholic, is that, and and some people will criticize us for this and say, you Catholics spend too much time on the cross, meditating on the cross. You know, why don't you become an Easter people and just rejoice and be glad? But yet we have to remind ourselves that it's our sin that put Jesus on the cross. And until we get rid of our sin problem, the cross will remain. The cross will remain, and our lady will suffer because she's losing her son again and again and again.

Allan Smith 47:14

And I've said this before and at some of the talks I've given in parishes, is that have we ever taken the moment of our day or time to apologize to the Blessed Virgin Mary for the role we played in the death of her son and causing her this sorrow? Um I tell the story of uh my son and I were looking at um the six o'clock news, and there was a story of a drunk driver who had uh, of course, killed um a young lady's son, you know. And uh I said to my son, what do you think that mother is going to say um, you know, to that person that killed her son? And when we thought about it, and we said, Well, I'm sure that the mother would not have many kind words for this person and probably have some ill wishes, like, I hope you go to hell, and I hope you stay in jail forever, and like things like that.

Allan Smith 48:15

But yet we were thinking about the Cross and drunk drivers, and in a way, we're the reckless drunk drivers who it's our reckless sin that caused Jesus to die on the Cross. And so when we finally figure that out and sober up, you know, do we make that apology? And I always see you see our lady weeping at the foot of the cross, and you realize you had something to do with that. You had something to do with Jesus being on the cross and dying, and that's the cost of our sin. And we had something to do with our lady's tears. We caused her that grief, we caused her that sorrow. And so apologizing to our mother, it's a beautiful thing because we say, I'm sorry for the role I played in the death of your son. Forgive me. And to have her turn and say, I forgive you, I love you, you're mine. Now come let me live with you, come, let me mother you.

Allan Smith 49:17

And to hear those words of forgiveness and consolation is beautiful. And I encourage everyone. There's a lot of uh of the viewers that have a mother wound. Um, and that comes sometimes through just interactions with our mother. I always say, my mom wrecked all my fun. She was always wrecking my fun. She was just trying to save my life, she was just trying to be a good mother. But yet I realize now, again, her love for me and the love that our lady has for all of us. And so when we can reconcile with her and reconcile, of course, with God, uh, life is beautiful. Life is beautiful. So again, she stood, she knew that this was God's Holy will.

Allan Smith 50:00

And uh again, she just was there not just for him, but for all of us. She became the mother of all of us. Jesus was her firstborn, the Bible says so. And of course, Saint John was her secondborn through this spiritual adoption. Um, but we're of course Saint Mark was the third born and Saint Peter the fourth, but we're her millionth and millionth born. And uh that's beautiful. We need to rejo rejoice that Mary is our mother. And I always say that Calvary is the nursery, it's where we became children of Mary. So let's be happy. There is a good and good Friday, I like to say, and we get to be children of Mary, and so let us rejoice and um and wipe away her tears and uh console her, and of course, rejoice that she is our mother. So it's all good. It's all good.

How to sanctify our suffering

Sheila Nonato 51:01

Yes, and so I guess as we continue on with our Lenten um resolutions, prayers, almsgiving, um, sacrifices, what can what words of encouragement can you give um to those who are, you know, who are suffering um and who are looking to the cross? And you know, everyone's you know, done this that, you know, you know, "Father, um you know, why have you forsaken me"? Um what words of comfort or consolation uh can Bishop Sheen give or can you give us a lot of people? Are suffering right now during lunch. They're they are feeling the cross offered up in their reality of the earth.

Allan Smith 51:45

Sometimes easier said than done. But I think the more time you spend just shouldering up to our Lord, you know, uh some of us suffer, you know, physical pain, arthritis in the shoulder, uh th, you know, and agony in different parts of our body. And yes, we can, you know, just pray that the pain would go away, but we can turn that pain into something very beautiful. And I think that's what Fulton Sheen would say is don't waste your pain. Uh he would give the story of every time he walk he would walk by a hospital, he would see the beds lined up on two sides. One the side of beds saying, take me down, and the other side of hospital bed saying, take me up. Uh those ones that were saying take me up were uniting their pain to the pain of Christ and turning it into a beautiful offering.

Allan Smith 52:44

Um, where the other ones, it was wasted pain. And I think this is what Fulton Sheen would say is don't waste your pain. Take that pain and make it meritorious. Unite it to the pain of Christ. And again, a beautiful lesson, and people will say that to me. Uh, those that live in chronic pain, uh, they say, what gets me through this time in my life with this pain is that I've been able to unite it to Christ and to be with him and to know that he suffered even more pain than I did. My pain is minuscule to the pain he endured uh emotionally and physically during his crucifixion. Um so there there's something there. Um easy to reflect this way and say, oh yeah, that makes sense. Different to do it, but practice makes perfect.

Allan Smith 53:36

And so try it in your little agonies and then it can grow and you'll be able to always unite your pain to uh our Lord's pain and make it meritorious. Uh Fulton Sheen would say it's like an unsigned check. But when you finally unite it to the pain of Christ, it's a signed check and it has a redeeming value. So uh there we go. Uh but again, look to the cross and you can see that that's pain, but pain offered in love, love for saving souls. And we can then too apply that pain and say, Lord, I want to offer this up for the salvation of souls, including our own, including our own.

Speaker 54:26

Yes, beautiful.

Sheila Nonato 54:27

And um,

Books Resources And Closing Prayer

Sheila Nonato 54:28

Thank you very much for joining us. I uh went on a retreat. I did bring this book, um, "The Seven Last Words of Christ Explained, Aa classic collection of Sheen's preaching on the Cross." And um I unfortunately couldn't take the other one, "Behold Our Mother," Beh Behold Your Mother. Um, and that also powerful, powerful uh words, um teachings that can help us, especially during Lent.

Allan Smith 54:51

And like I say, my website is direct you to Amazon too, because I mean direct them to your website. Um they are worldwide. People in Australia that are watching will buy from Amazon Australia. Those in the UK will buy from the Amazon in the United Kingdom, and those in America will buy from Amazon.com or Amazon.ca for those in Canada. So uh you can find all of these books on Amazon. And uh again, go to the website bishopsheen today.com, and then you'll see about 50 different titles and will point you to the right direction to where to get the books. So uh again, we're happy to share Sheen's uh again, he wrote 66 books, so we tried to republish as many as we could, but you know, we're thrifty.

Allan Smith 55:37

I don't want to say we're cheap, we're thrifty. So when you can get nine books in one at a great price, that's good. That's golden. So uh again, the the Seven Last Words of Christ Explained by Archbishop Sheen is a great, uh not just a Lentern read, it's a great read for the whole year. So uh again, I I actually have 74 books uh to my record uh over the years, uh books that I've edited, compiled with Sophia Institute Press and my own Bishop Sheen Today publishing. God is good and he has a sense of humor. He was able to use tax collectors, uh, fishermen, uh, tent makers, and so he's using me, a retired plumber, uh, to republish all these books, and so we're having fun. And God does have a sense of humor, but uh bishopsheen today.com, and you'll find these books on Amazon uh on the World Wide Network. So there you go.

Sheila Nonato 56:42

Beautiful. And also the Holy Face Miracle. Um, you were uh on a previous episode uh talking about the Holy Face Miracle. I don't know if you know this, but it's an Amazon bestseller. I just no no no like I say, um I think I think it was edited by you. Holy Face Miracle and anyway, congratulations, um , To God be the glory. We need to rejoice and be glad. Thank you. Did you want to close with a prayer? Sometimes the world can be very somber and you know depressing. Uh, but we need to find those joys. And and Fulton Sheen said, "Your life is worth living." God has a plan for each and every one of us. It doesn't matter the street or your brain surgeon, God has a plan for everyone. And so rejoice in that. Your life is worth living. So uh I'll leave you with that.

Sheila Nonato 57:25

And of course, my favorite Sheen quote is, unless souls are saved, nothing is saved. So remember, we're in the business of saving souls, including our own. So let's stay busy uh on that mission of becoming saints. So we'll pray. Uh let's go. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Dear Blessed Mother, we thank you for uh letting your um in just your wisdom and your your um I I just want to say your great example to us uh the times that you spoke and you loved our Lord. May we imitate you in loving our Lord too. And we ask you to bless our families.

Sheila Nonato 58:05

We ask you to bless our church, we ask you to bring more souls to the church, especially at Easter time, when we receive so many new Catholics. And Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen had hundreds of thousands of converts to his record, as we pray for his intercession, as we pray, Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Our Lady, Seat of Wisdom, pray for us. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, pray for us, and Saint Therese of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face, pray for us. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen. Thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Yes, it's gonna be good. I'm looking forward to it. So thanks. Thank you so much again. God bless you. Thank you. All the best with your book. The

Final Reflection And What’s Next

Sheila Nonato 59:18

path to redemption is the path of the cross. As we look towards Easter and Pentecost, we remember how much God the Father loved us, to send his only son to redeem us on the cross, and how much Jesus loved his Father and loved us, to endure the humiliation, torture, and suffering that he did, and to suffer the great injustice of being put to death as an innocent man. He rose on the third day to redeem us all, so that today we can turn to the cross to remember that his sacrifice and God's love endures forever. In our next episodes, we will look at how faith and love in marriage are a recipe for a successful life partnership. And we will continue on the theme of the feminine genius and conversion. Thank you very much, friends, and God bless, and a happy Easter to you in advance.