49. How to find your God-given charisms and spiritual gifts as a Mother, and how to help your children find theirs

What happens when motherhood leaves you wondering who you are beyond diapers, carpools, or an empty nest? In this illuminating conversation with Jill Simons, Executive Director of Many Parts Ministries, we uncover how understanding your charisms—unique spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit—can transform your identity and purpose as a Catholic woman.

Jill explains the crucial distinction between gifts of the Holy Spirit (which all Christians receive) and charisms (which are unique to each person and meant for building the Church). This difference isn't just theological—it's deeply practical for mothers who often struggle with identity shifts when achievements, relationships, and routines change after having children.

"Our truest identity comes from what God says about us, not what we say about ourselves," Jill emphasizes, offering a powerful alternative to the identity confusion many women experience. Through Many Parts Ministries' assessment process, women can gain objective perspective on their spiritual gifts, discovering where God is calling them to serve within both their domestic church and the broader Catholic community.

Particularly fascinating is the concept of "seasonality" in our charisms. Just as motherhood evolves through different stages, the Holy Spirit often gives us new gifts for new seasons—whether we're new mothers, launching teens into adulthood, or entering our empty nest years. These charisms don't replace our vocation but rather empower us to live it more fully while continuing to grow in holiness.

For mothers of teenagers, Jill offers specific guidance on helping young people discover their own charisms, including a specially designed assessment for teens and strategies for supporting their discernment without overmanaging it. Her insights provide a roadmap for parents seeking to guide their children toward purposeful, faith-filled futures.

Ready to discover your unique spiritual gifts? Visit manypartsministries.com to take their assessment, access their communities, or explore their books and podcast. Your charisms aren't just for you—they're God's way of working through you to build His kingdom, one motherly moment at a time.

To find out more about Many Parts Ministries and receive their free guide to Charisms, please visit
https://manypartsministries.com
Jill Simons hosts the Charism for Catholics Podcast, available on all podcasting platforms
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/charisms-for-catholics/id1688464564

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Charisms for Mothers
• 4:15 Identity Crisis in Motherhood
• 16:09 Understanding Charisms vs. Gifts from the Holy Spirit
• 22:50 Discerning Your Unique Charisms
• 31:11 How Charisms Change Through Life Seasons
• 40:26 When Charisms Stretch Your Comfort Zone
• 48:26 Resources for Teens and Parents
• 57:56 Using Your Gifts Builds the Church

Transcript

Sheila Nonato: 0:00

Are you a woman struggling to find your new identity after becoming a mother for the first time, or adjusting to life with teens or adult children? This is where knowing your charisms, which are expressions of God's grace, can help you on this path of faith-led self-discovery. Jill Simons is our guest this week to talk about how Many Parts Ministries can help to identify, value and nurture the role that each member of the Body of Christ plays, and how we can live out our God-given feminine genius as women and in our own vocations.

Jill Simons: 0:39

So I think it's really important. Something that we include in the conversation around charisms that isn't always included is the aspect of where we are receiving our identity, and this comes up hugely in the conversation, especially around new mothers or stay at home mothers, where there is obviously this is important for everybody, but I think the acuteness or maybe the awareness of this just increases in that situation for a lot of women, maybe not every woman, but a lot and we really have to understand foundationally, before everything else, that our truest identity comes from what God says about us. Like what is true about us is actually what God says about us and not what it is that we say about ourselves, because it's so common to just organically develop these identities from relationships or achievements or struggles, and this is so commonly a pain point in early motherhood, because a lot of things can feel like they're being stripped away. Maybe we don't have as much time for some relationships. Maybe we aren't achieving quote unquote on paper, what we perceive to have achieved in the past. Maybe we're really struggling with being mothers and that feels shameful, because we probably prayed for this baby, hoped for this baby, whatever the situation might be.

Jill Simons: 2:04

I know my own situation. I was when I became a new mom. I was relatively newly married and I did not feel ready. This was not the timing I had had in mind, and I had a lot of shame around that, and all of those things can color our concept of ourself.

Jill Simons: 2:21

That then makes it more challenging to both be accurate about ourselves in the way necessary to discern our charisms, but also to detach from the outcome of using our charisms in a way that gives us greater freedom, and so that's why I think that in motherhood, it's so important to take something like a charism assessment, have this awareness of where it is that God is inviting you to build his church, but also keep a really strong eye, and our assessment does help you do this, because we have an identity aspect of it, with a lot of guidance about how to follow up, keep an eye on where we're using our charisms from, because I think it can be such a temptation to make it feel like, oh, that is the thing that I can then achieve with, or that is the thing that can then give me a socially perceived value in a way that I don't perceive my life having value right now because of where I'm at, and obviously the women run the entire spectrum of that conversation.

Jill Simons: 3:30

There's probably some people listening that are like I've never struggled with that at all and that's fantastic, like that's, that's a wonderful gift to not have those struggles. And then all the way to the women who are like gosh, I don't even I feel like I don't even know who I am and what I'm doing anymore who are like gosh, I don't even. I feel like I don't even know who I am and what I'm doing anymore. And this looking at both identity and charisms can help you wherever you fall on that spectrum, to just look at what needs to get dialed in to ultimately just be the saint that God created you to be.

Sheila Nonato: 4:04

Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast. This is your host, Sheila Nonato. I'm a stay-at-home mom and a freelance catholic journalist. Seeking the guidance of the holy spirit and the inspiration of our lady, I strive to tell stories that inspire, illuminate and enrich the lives of catholic women, to help them in living out our vocation of raising the next generation of leaders and saints.

Co-hosts: 4:28

Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour podcast, where stories come alive through a journalist's lens and mother's heart.

Sheila Nonato: 4:35

Welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast, jill Simons, and it's an honor to meet you online, and can we please start off with a prayer?

Jill Simons: 4:44

I would love nothing more. Let's begin in the name of the father, son, Holy Spirit, Amen. Come, Holy Spirit. We just thank you for the opportunity to have this moment of respite, just in your presence on in this time of prayer and listening to this podcast. Just this moment of refreshment in the midst of whatever the subject, substance of our life is, as women and as mothers, that this might be a place where we really can come to be refreshed and renewed. And we just ask that you might be with Sheila and myself as we are speaking today, that we might say what it is you desire for us to say and that what it is that you have given us to say will be impactful for those listening. We pray that this will bear fruit in their lives and that this time of investing in themselves and their relationship with you will yield great fruit in their families, in their relationships, in their sphere of influence, whatever that is. We love you, lord, and we praise you, Amen.

Sheila Nonato: 5:48

Amen. Well, thank you very much, and I just wanted to introduce you to listeners. Jill Simons is a Catholic author and speaker. She is the executive director of Many Parts Ministries and host of the Charisms for Catholics podcast. It's actually a really awesome podcast. Please do listen in. And she is a wife and a mom of four in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And let's start off with you. Know what is a charism of the Holy Spirit? I know it's on your website, but if you can explain to us, yes, I'd love to.

Jill Simons: 6:19

That's a great place to start. A charism is a specific type of grace, so that's not something we talk about a lot is that there's different varieties of grace, because most of the graces that we receive are common to all of us. We all receive the grace of salvation, the grace of receiving the Holy Spirit, being able to hear God's voice, having that open Heaven, all the things that happen in the image of the baptism of Christ, as well as receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That gets talked about frequently as we're going through confirmation prep and things like that.

Jill Simons: 6:51

Charisms are something separate from all of those things, although they are the same type of thing. They are a grace, which means it's a free gift. You don't do something to earn it except simply accept the grace, except simply accept the invitation to be baptized as the first advent of grace and charisms are unique to each individual person. So the Holy Spirit looks at the church as a whole, thinks about where you are created to fit within that, and then gives you the gifts necessary for you to fulfill your specific and unique role within the larger body of Christ, which is why they vary from person to person.

Sheila Nonato: 7:32

Okay, and how does Many Parts Ministries? How does that fit into the charisms of the Holy spirit?

Jill Simons: 7:40

So, that's our entire mission is to help the church discern their charisms. So this is at every level. We help individuals, families, small groups, parishes, diocese, all levels of the church to better understand the charisms of its individual members so that we can better come together as the body of Christ to build the church in the most effective way possible. We find that, by and large, we are working harder, not smarter, as a church. We're not focusing on what it is that people have been given and going from there and cooperating with the Holy Spirit in that way. We're looking at what we would like to happen and then trying to fit people into that mold and we've kind of got it backwards. But in order to get it straightened out, working in the way that God intended, we've got to have an actual opportunity to step back, get some objective perspective on ourselves and be able to better understand what is it that I was created for and what have I been given to be able to build the church.

Sheila Nonato: 8:43

Beautiful! And on your website, you state your mission, which is to help everyone who comes to church know that they have a. They have magnificent gifts from God to serve the church and that we are all better off when they use them. So how do we? I know you have an assessment on your website, so tell us, kind of walk us through, how is this assessment, how does it work? And then, how is this going to help us to find those gifts?

Jill Simons: 9:09

Well, really, the process of learning your charisms has to start with some objective perspective, that term that I already used, talking about kind of how we begin, because people are not great at being accurate about themselves. We are not. Even. Even if you're seeking to be self-reflective and things like that, your view of yourself, typically, if it's developing organically, is not going to be the most accurate view of yourself. Who's, of course, is going to be completely accurate is God's view of yourself. But, short of God, just kind of writing on the stone tablet telling exactly, telling you exactly what he wants you to do.

Jill Simons: 9:53

We can also use self-reporting in small instances to be able to put together a holistic picture of where are your most likely charisms.

Jill Simons: 9:57

And that's what the assessment does.

Jill Simons: 9:58

It's not magical, it's not spiritual, it's simply creating a mirror to be able to show back to people.

Jill Simons: 10:06

Based on your answer to kind of these small questions, we're able to aggregate that into a whole to show you this is what we're hearing, this is what we're seeing, this is what seems most likely for you, and that's what you come away from the assessment with is not a like sign, sealed and delivered 100%.

Jill Simons: 10:24

These are your charisms and they will never change. It's, this is what seems most likely for you right now in this season of your life, cause there is an element of that seasonality that we experience a lot as women in our charisms, not that things are like given and taken away, but that typically things will new, things will be added for new seasons, and I think we experienced this when we, you know, go to, like, graduate from high school, when we go through college, when we get married, when we decide our vocation, discern our vocation, when we maybe become mothers, whether it's biological or spiritual, whatever that looks like there's new gifts given for each season, and so this assessment just kind of steps back, gives you some objective perspective that then you can take into a more formal process of discernment.

Sheila Nonato: 11:17

Oh, I see, and can you also tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you get into this apostolate?

Jill Simons: 11:25

Yeah, so I used to start when I was 17 when I discovered charisms, but now I think it makes a lot more sense to start my story even younger. I was one of those early precocious readers. That's either really fun to teach or really nightmarish to teach. I don't know. It depends on your kindergarten philosophy, but my saintly grandmother used to give me these saint books to read just small child saint books to read and I remember so clearly reading one about St. Rose of Lima and if you know her story, she like cut her hair off with a hatchet and burned her face with boiling water and mutilated herself in these ways so that she wouldn't be attractive to someone to marry, because she wanted to be celibate and commit her life solely to God. And as I'm reading this, I'm just like this sounds awful, like I don't want any of these things, but I had been given such a beautiful faith that I knew I wanted to be a saint, but I also knew I didn't want to be like her, and so I started believing this lie, even at that very early age, that I was just created incorrectly to actually be a saint. Like there's this set of characteristics or aptitudes or predilections that make someone a saint, and I didn't have it.

Jill Simons: 12:37

But when I was 17 and trying to figure out where to go to college, I discovered this concept of charisms. I think I literally Googled, like "what to do with my life Catholic, or what to study in college, catholic or something like that, and was eventually, through some circuitous route, brought to the teaching in the catechism on charisms and some of the other writings of John Paul II that dealt with charisms, and it was beautiful but also frustrating, because I was clear to me instantaneously that this is what I needed to understand, to understand what I should do better and what kind of saint ultimately I should be. But there was so little in the church documents about what I should do to better understand my charisms, and so it began really this decade long expedition of learning. I was constantly reading everything I could get my hands on about charisms, but then at the same time I was talking about what I was learning with people in my circle and so many people were then asking like, well, I want to know what my charisms are, can you help me? And so I got to have these just luxurious, super long times of discernment with just friends and peers where we would take like 30 hours over the course of five months and talk these things through, and it taught me what it looks like when the Holy Spirit moves in someone. I think that's the best way I could summarize it.

Jill Simons: 14:03

Like I came to see the fingerprints of the specific charisms in people as I got to learn about them, with kind of from the reading on one side and the experiential knowledge on the other side, and then the Holy Spirit just kept slowly widening the circle. Eventually people started asking me to come talk to small groups, to parish staffs, to entire parishes. Then, about two years ago, he opened a really big door for us to be able to launch internationally, bring everything online so that it would be as accessible as possible, which is a huge part of my desire for this. I go back to myself.

Jill Simons: 14:43

At 17, as a teenager, I was in rural Iowa in a low resource parish, and so now I seek to create things for where I was then, for the teenagers, for the people in parishes who are maybe not as engaged, or where I should say the community is not as engaged, not as engaged, or where I should say the community is not as engaged, where the resources maybe aren't there to be able to understand, even if it's just me. How can I stand in the gap? And so I've been doing this full time for the last two years. It's been phenomenal. I have written five books about charisms in all different ways, and I'm working on more, and have a wonderful staff that does it alongside me now.

Sheila Nonato: 15:29

Oh, Wow, that's, that's beautiful. And how did, how did you find your charisms as a mother, and how can other mothers, other women, find theirs?

Jill Simons: 15:40

So I think it's really important. It's something that we include in the conversation around charisms. That isn't always included is the aspect of where we are receiving our identity, and this comes up hugely in the conversation especially around new mothers or stay at home mothers, where there is obviously this is important for everybody, but I think the acuteness or maybe the awareness of this it just increases in that situation for a lot of women maybe not every woman, but a lot and we really have to understand foundationally, before everything else, that our truest identity comes from what God says about us. Like what is true about us is actually what God says about us and not what it is that we say about ourselves, because it's so common to just organically develop these identities from relationships or achievements or struggles, and this is so commonly a pain point in early motherhood, because a lot of things can feel like they're being stripped away. Maybe we don't have as much time for some relationships, maybe we aren't achieving quote unquote on paper what we perceive to have achieved in the past. Maybe we're really struggling with being mothers and that feels shameful, because we probably prayed for this baby, hoped for this baby, whatever the situation might be.

Jill Simons: 17:05

I know my own situation I was when I became a new mom.

Jill Simons: 17:09

I was relatively newly married and I did not feel ready.

Jill Simons: 17:12

This was not the timing I had had in mind, and I had a lot of shame around that, and all of those things can color our concept of ourself.

Jill Simons: 17:23

That then makes it more challenging to both be accurate about ourselves in the way necessary to discern our charisms, but also to detach from the outcome of using our charisms in a way that gives us greater freedom, and so that's why I think that in motherhood, it's so important to take something like a charism assessment, have this awareness of where it is that God is inviting you to build his church, but also keep a really strong eye, and our assessment does help you do this, because we have an identity aspect of it, with a lot of guidance about how to follow up, keep an eye on where we're using our charisms from, because I think it can be such a temptation to make it feel like, oh, that is the thing that I can then achieve with, or that is the thing that can then give me a socially perceived value in a way that I don't perceive my life having value right now because of where I'm at, and obviously the women run the entire spectrum of that conversation.

Jill Simons: 18:31

There's probably some people listening that have like I've never struggled with that at all and that's fantastic, like that's, that's a wonderful gift to not have those struggles. And then all the way to the women who are like gosh, I don't even. I feel like I don't even know who I am and what I'm doing anymore. And this looking at both identity and charisms can help you wherever you fall on that spectrum, to just look at what needs to get dialed in to ultimately just be the saint that God created you to be.

Sheila Nonato: 19:01

Yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely. And I just wanted to sort of read some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, because they sound like really leadership qualities, which is what mothers and fathers are doing, uh, in, you know, helping to form their children, uh, in the faith and to become leaders when they grow up. So I just you, understanding, right judgment or counsel, courage or fortitude, knowledge, reverence or piety, wonder and awe or fear of the Lord, and these all, yeah, like, as I was saying, fit together very nicely and very concretely in sort of helping us to raise the next generation of leaders and saints. How do we fit the charisms in sort of that formation, in helping to be mothers in our own domestic church? How can, yeah, how can you help us please?

Jill Simons: 20:01

Yeah. So I want to be clear. That list that you just read are the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are different than charisms. They are not interchangeable, it's not the same thing. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to all Christians. So, Sheila, me, those listening, we all have those same gifts and we all have all of them, all of those gifts that Sheila read out just now, we all have.

Jill Simons: 20:26

That's part of our Baptism, given the fullness at our Confirmation, and those are all things that allow us to have the personal faith that we ought. So they're very important, definitely worth like engendering and kind of building up in your kids, being aware of those things, knowing that you and they have all of them and and just the amount that we can have not that we have to quantify it or something can vary. So, for instance, knowledge is one of those ones that you read. I had to do a lot of learning to make the faith my own and really be able to be at the place where I can say, yes, I believe Catholicism is real, and a lot of that was head knowledge that I needed to acquire, and so that gift of the Holy Spirit, of knowledge, is really important to my faith, whereas my wonderful saintly grandmother was just like I don't know nobody knows how the Holy Spirit or how the Trinity functions and nobody has to and she needed very little knowledge, head knowledge of theology, in order to sustain her very beautiful, robust faith, and so that's where we can have variances within those gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now, I'm so glad that you brought them up, because gifts and the charisms get confused a lot.

Jill Simons: 21:45

Gifts of the Holy Spirit, like I said, are for us personally, like that's for you to be the Catholic you should be and have the faith that you should have. Charisms are always for other people, so the charisms you have been given are for you to give away. These are things that other people need to receive from you, and that's why everybody has all different ones. So, for instance, these gifts of the Holy spirit that Sheila read, that is like the fact that we are all part of one puzzle. It's all the same puzzle, it's got the same, maybe like brown craft backing on it, or whatever. The charisms are the aspect that we all have different, like colors and the shape, cutouts are different and things like that and they can only be combined in one way in the whole, they they must come together to make the whole, and so that's what we're looking for in our charisms.

Jill Simons: 22:38

So then, looking at how do we use these within our family life? Every charism can be used at every level of the church and, as we know, the domestic church, our homes, is like the smallest cellular unit of the body of Christ, and so, even if you have charisms where you're like gosh, this really seems like the only place that it would live is maybe at the parish level or the diocesan level or even a higher level of the church structure. There is still a way that God is calling you to potentially to use that charism within your home. Now there's also situations where that's not true. I have leadership is one of my charisms, but that does not mean I'm called to be the leader of my family. I'm not the leader of my family, my husband is, and the husband is always going to be the leader of the family, because that's kind of the order of the domestic church.

Jill Simons: 23:30

Some men have leadership as a charism that helps them to do that, but I've received leadership as a charism to be able to lead my organization, which is what I do from my place, of being under the authority of the Holy Spirit and also ultimately though it's not really socially acceptable to say under the authority of my husband, and that is what, when we get these things kind of rightly ordered, leads to greater harmony in the family and harmony in the church, and it's not about like, oh, we need to make these certain rules based on what we perceive as best it's about. What does it look like to cooperate with the Holy Spirit authentically, with what you've been given? And the two most important pieces of information you've been given by the Holy Spirit are what is your vocation and what are your charisms? Because those two things together gives you the clearest sense of what the substance of your life should look like.

Sheila Nonato: 24:29

And I'm glad you made that distinction because I, as you heard, I confused them, charism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. I'm sorry about that.

Jill Simons: 24:44

It is hard because they get, I mean, so many people do that. So common mistake.

Sheila Nonato: 24:49

I'm very curious also about your new program, Charism for Teens teens because I do have preteens and I heard this is a challenging period of time to sort of, and I'd like to be able to help navigate navigate them in this sort of challenging time and what. So can you tell us a little bit more about the program for teens?

Jill Simons: 25:09

Yes. So we have an assessment that is specific for teenagers. We do not have teenagers take our adult assessment, because there's a lot of prefrontal cortex development that is in the works and there's a larger gap in the self-reporting abilities for teenagers versus adults. So we have formulated an assessment specifically for them and the main difference is that it casts a lot of things in in terms of where there is a pull and a desire, a longing from the Holy spirit to do something, um, when they may not have had a lot of forums to do that thing yet, which gives us a lot more clarity for young people, because a lot of times there will be that like fire to do something, that desire to do something that hasn't had space to be explored yet, and so that's the biggest difference between the two. It's looking at the same charisms. It's still including that identity piece of things. So that's the tool that teens are able to use independently Now.

Jill Simons: 26:14

You don't have to wait for it to come through their youth ministry or through a parish or something like that. If you go to our website, to the assessment page, on one side it'll say I'm 19 or younger and I'd like to take the charism assessment. On the other page it says I'm 20 or older, so that's basically the adult versus the teen assessment. And then we? I also have a book that came out earlier this year called a passion and purpose charisms for teens, and that book is super helpful for teens and parents alike. Again, that's something that you can just buy on Amazon. You do not have to wait for it to come through your youth ministry program or through your children's school, and that really helps you understand how to teach teens to hear God's voice in prayer. As it relates to discernment, that's a great skillset. There's a lot of really practical teaching tools for that in that book, as well as how to understand all of these different charisms in their context as a young person and start thinking about what does that mean? I might be interested in exploring as I continue to mature when it comes to what am I going to study in college, what am I going to spend summers and internship time doing, and how can I more thoughtfully really cooperate with what it is that the Holy Spirit is doing, because a lot of people will kind of organically stumble onto something pretty close to what it is that they're supposed to be doing, but there's not the same level of clarity and intentionality there, without being able to put language to why A lot of people, especially adults, will have started on a path as teenagers that turns out is a great path for them. They're finding a lot of success, but a lot of the lack of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Jill Simons: 27:58

We're gonna throw another third thing into the mix. Fruits are a third thing from the gifts or the charisms. Those are what show us where the Holy Spirit is present. This is exactly like you know, an apple tree is an apple tree because there is apples on the tree and this is the. The fruits of the Holy spirit are the things that show up when the Holy spirit is the source of what it is that you're doing. And so a lot of people will not experience the fruits at the same level when they don't have an understanding of why what they are doing is the correct thing for them to do. They're sort of this niggling open door of like, what if it's something else? What if I'm incorrect? Is this really all that I should be doing? And we get to actually close that door when we get clarity on our charisms and the earlier it comes in life, especially if it comes as a teenager. 14 is really the youngest that we recommend in life, especially if it comes as a teenager. 14 is really the youngest that we recommend If it comes as a teenager. What a foundation to then be able to like no. I'm going to make the choices in my life based on what it is it seems like the Holy spirit has given me to do, and that's that's the great gift that I received in learning about them so young, in being so tenacious in like no. I'm going to figure this out, even though there's not like clear resources to do it.

Jill Simons: 29:19

I was clear going into college that craftsmanship, leadership and writing were my primary charisms and that point in my life and I went hard after all of them and it was such a beautiful progression and it was a clear path for me to not only serve other people but also to grow in the ways that the Holy Spirit wanted me to grow to be able to do what I do now.

Jill Simons: 29:42

Nowadays there's a different set of three charisms that is really the charisms of this season, but I still have writing and craftsmanship, the two that kind of got bumped down the list a little bit, and they just come along in service to what is primary now. So, for instance, now my primary charisms are like knowledge, leadership and prophecy. And as an expression of knowledge, I've written more books in this phase of my life than I did when I thought about writing being primary, because I wasn't writing for writing sake. I'm now writing to transmit the knowledge that I have to people. So it's a really beautiful tool also to just look at where you're at, look at where you've been and be able to really intentionally cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

Sheila Nonato: 30:31

And so just to sort of bring up that distinction again. So charisms, gifts and fruits, they're all different. Yes, all different, yes. And so the teens, they do want the test. When they do the test in adulthood, do the charisms change? Or even, as in adulthood, do they change when you're in a different stage of life?

Jill Simons: 30:52

Yeah, so that's really that seasonality piece where, when I discerned as a teen, I had clarity about those few that was the case for in my situation it was about it was about 11 years that those were the primary charisms for me. It was real clear and it didn't really change. And then this would have been about four years ago. There was a really clear seasonal shift in my life. I reached the point where, like it was very likely because of medical issues, that our family was complete. I wasn't going to be like doing the pregnant and new baby thing again, and so that was a shift. And then I also received the opportunity to do what it is that I do now, and that was another shift. And there was a really clear episode of like a new acquisition of grace. And this is where this is why we encourage people every like two to three years, we encourage people to just reassess with the assessment, not because you need to do some like big, long discernment process all over again every two to three years, but because it's really important and helpful to catch if the Holy spirit is doing something new, because typically new gifts are received for new missions. So they, the Holy spirit, has something new for you to do and he gives you a new gift to empower you to do it. And if you miss it, if it just kind of goes on, you know, under the radar, then you can also miss out, just not be paying attention to the new call of mission that the Holy spirit has for your life. And this isn't a really important thing for mothers, especially if there's sort of a year to year, like you know.

Jill Simons: 32:37

Am I going to continue to stay home? Should I go back? What does that look like? What should I do? How do I allot my time as children are getting older? What else should I be prioritizing beyond the development of our children's lives?

Jill Simons: 32:54

For my life and some people, that's going to be totally different than other people. But it's helpful to check back in on a semi-regular basis that every two to three years, to be able to see is there a new invitation? We find that there's this level of seasonality is higher for women than for men, because men a lot of times are kind of on a road for longer, not to say they can't be given new things. We still recommend men reassess, but there's not frequently that level of like. Now we're over here and now it's totally different, and now we're doing something else that we as women can experience in our adult lives because of the cause of motherhood. So that's why I think it's kind of extra important for women in that situation to just be checking in, because it's easy to get your head down in what you're doing and not really pay attention to if there's a new invitation.

Sheila Nonato: 33:52

And so, in terms of that new invitation, I'm just wondering if you do the test and you find a charism that maybe you think, oh, I never thought of that. And you're wondering is the Lord calling me to something that I'm not sure if I can do? And then, in that case, I'm thinking about Moses and God said okay, you're going to talk to the Pharaoh. And he said well, lord, I can't do it. I think he might've had some sort of speech impediment. But the Lord said (paraphrasing) "well, you got your brother Aaron and he's going to help you. He still didn't let him off the hook. But I'm just wondering, if there is a charism that you think I don't think I can do that, but the Lord is asking me to do this, how do, how do we discern that this is the right charism that we, that we receive?

Jill Simons: 34:36

Yes. So typically it's not that the whole charism is like something you're not sure you can do. It's typically the specific way that the Holy Spirit is calling you to use it. You might be like that's too big, that's too much, that's like more than I feel, like I can handle, and this does happen extremely regularly. It is 100% normal part of spiritual development as we see it, because you're, as you progress in your identity, that piece of things we spoke about at the beginning, where you have really adopted God's image of you as your image of yourself. That's when there's a really like, a clear like taking off of the training wheels.

Jill Simons: 35:18

I'm going to say where the Holy spirit's like okay, I've got an invitation for you and it literally is so large whether it's not necessarily large in size, but it turned large in risk Like this is so much bigger than you have thought of or imagined for yourself. I'm going to invite you to do this because you know yourself and you know that you're only going to get be able to get it 60% of the way to the finish line and you have got to put your money where your mouth is and expect the Holy spirit to get it the rest of the 40% of the way, but you're not going to have any tangible physical evidence of that until you do it. And that is where we're invited to again just put our money where our mouth is and like, okay, I'm saying that I am trusting you. Now I have to actually trust you, because this thing literally makes no sense unless I trust you. And again, the scope of this totally different for different people. You have a large comfort zone. It's probably going to be like a super massive thing. You have a small comfort zone. It might be something that someone else is like that that's your, that's your big risk, like that's not really big risk, but but your hardest thing is whatever the hardest thing you have ever done is, and that there's really no benefit or help in that comparison. Because the Holy spirit meets us where we're at and says I'm going to stretch you specifically, uniquely, this much further than you've ever been stretched before. And then guess what, once we're done, we're going to do it again. And this is what we see in the saints, where what they're able to accomplish in their lifetime so vastly exceeds what it is that you would expect.

Jill Simons: 37:00

And I think a great illustrative example that a lot of people are familiar with is St Therese of Lisieux. Clearly a writing charism. At work there she did enjoy writing, but it was her mother, superior. That was like I want you to write this book and that was the thing for her. That was like so much further than she was comfortable risking, and she had the benefit of, of the obedience of her vocation to be able to kind of push her across the finish line which is what we see frequently in religious orders um to where she was then faithful, did it? The Holy spirit showed up and now, whatever, a hundred and plus years later, we're still having current conversions from this book that she wrote at that point.

Jill Simons: 37:43

So this is what we expect. Is that? It's not. It does not get easier as you progress. It asks you to let go more and more. The level of detachment increases just as exactly as we expect. The level of detachment increases as our holiness increases. So the fruit of our charisms, what the benefit I should say of our charisms, is for other people, but we experience this necessary growth in holiness to progress in them. That is like the best side effect ever that the Holy Spirit designed into the system so that we would do both simultaneously.

Sheila Nonato: 38:24

And so how much preparation do we need to do? You mentioned prayer Before we take this test, because maybe some of the teens might be wondering I don't, I don't know what, you know what, if my answers are going to be correct, or how? Yeah, please guide us. And even for some of the moms um, how do we, how do we prepare for this test?

Jill Simons: 38:45

Yeah. So, other than like Holy spirit, help me to be accurate. That's the, that's what I would pray. Holy spirit, help me to be accurate. And's the. That's what I would pray. Holy spirit helped me to be accurate and then just dive in.

Jill Simons: 38:55

Because if you get into a real state of like overthinking and over-preparing and things like that, your results will not be accurate. And that's the most important thing is that it's just what is your like off the cuff, um, gut response to this question. That's going to be way more accurate than what you get to by sitting with it for even 90 seconds, like we would like to this to go quickly and so it should take you about 25 minutes. If it's getting past 30 minutes, you you are overthinking, like it needs to and you're not having technical issues that could obviously elongate it. But if it's from you thinking, overthinking, that's where we're like, okay, this might not be the most accurate, because this should be more organic gut instinct responses to these questions. And I think the brilliant thing about our assessment that's really helpful is that at the end of it you receive a 25-page PDF report. It's very exhaustive. That goes through every aspect of this. So identity, all of the charisms, where where you fall in likelihood for all of the charisms all kinds of details about the charisms that are your most likely charisms and gives you a really good foundation of information to move forward in your discernment journey. But ultimately it's just going to be a PDF on your hard drive unless you actually take it into discernment.

Jill Simons: 40:21

So a lot of people do want to like be really active and do a bunch of things before the assessment, when in reality you can come as you are, show up to the assessment, ask the Holy Spirit to help you, be accurate, and then afterwards is when it's time to put in the work, to really take the results, go through it, pray through those and look at how can I get clarity about whether this is my charism or not by just testing these things out. This is literally like a scientific method situation, like when I do this, does this other thing that I would expect happen? And letting the Holy spirit give you feedback on your actions in the areas that are your likely charisms so you can grow in clarity about whether that is your charism or not. And and the length of time that takes is often proportionate with both spiritual maturity and chronological age. So if you are older and have been walking with Christ for a very long time, you likely can very accurately discern your charisms.

Jill Simons: 41:21

In like one day. You can take your results, pray with them, have a lot of clarity because you've got an entire lifetime of evidence for or against these different things. If you are young and not as close to the Lord, you're going to need a lot more time because you have very little personal history to look back on what you have done and also you're just still kind of learning how the Holy Spirit does give you feedback. So, even on the longest end, we recommend people spend no more than 60 days in discerning their charisms before saying, okay, yes, I think these are my charisms, this is what I'm going to focus on, this is what I am going to be intentional about doing to build the church.

Sheila Nonato: 42:05

Okay, so I'm actually going to take the test after this interview. I'm just curious. So once we get the results, do we, how do we zero in on like do we do all of them? Do we pick one and then do we get a spiritual director? How do we sort of or does your ministry have sort of some tools for us to develop these charisms or point us towards where should we go? Some?

Sheila Nonato: 42:29

tools for us to develop these charisms or point us towards where should we go?

Jill Simons: 42:37

Yes, absolutely. So. Typically, we recommend you look at your top four to five as your most likely charisms and to spend time with those. If you have a bunch of ties in your higher numbers that make like there's, there's you know a bank of maybe seven that are all extremely similar, then I typically encourage people to go with what it is that is most interesting or most attractive to them, because a lot of times, the Holy Spirit will draw us towards what is the appropriate call of the season, and so there's always small ways to use these charisms that are really joy filled for us, even if we're also being asked to take some kind of big risk. So, for instance, if someone has a charism of music, it's always going to be wonderful and joy filled by and large, pending other kind of large circumstance changes, it's always going to be joy filled for them to like sing and play with their friends and to be able to lead worship. To like sing and play with their friends, um, and to be able to lead worship, music and things like that. Maybe the big risk is, like you know, opening for a huge conference or being in front of the largest group crowd they've ever been in front of, or something like that, um.

Jill Simons: 43:41

But if you scale it back, you're going to find a lot of peace and joy and generosity, all those good fruits of the Holy spirit Spirit doing your charism at the level that you've been doing it historically, so kind of in your comfort zone. And so after you take your top four or five, we want to first of all pray with those as the Holy Spirit to give you feedback on times historically that you might have used these things that you can use for evidence. And then, ultimately, we want to fill a bucket of evidence is how I like to think about it. Like you've got a bucket for each charism. We're looking to fill a bucket of with evidence that it is or is not your charism and at the end of your period of discernment, you're able to say I did or did not receive sufficient evidence for this to be one of my charisms. So there is guidance in how to do that in the report that you get.

Jill Simons: 44:32

There is also a book that I wrote called "pen your gifts. It's behind me right there If you're watching the video, and it is a step-by-step exhaustive guide. This is for your personality. If you are the kind of person that's like, just no, no creativity, I can't be creative, just tell me exactly what I am supposed to do step-by-step. I'm not that way, but some of my best friends are, so I wrote this book for them, thinking about, like okay, if I have to like, step by step by step, what would I tell people to do? That's an open, your gifts. If you are not a writer, not a reader, that kind of format doesn't resonate with you.

Jill Simons: 45:11

We also have other resources available. We have our charism communities on our website. They're completely free. It's like a Facebook group, but it's just on our website and very soon maybe already at the time that this eventually airs we also are building a mobile app that will have those communities just in the mobile app, so super accessible, exactly like it would be on Facebook or something like that. Or you can ask questions. If you have just brief questions about like how would I test this or what do you think about that? And if you'd like more intense, personalized help, we do have charismatic coaches that we have trained, that have been exhaustively trained by myself on walking with people through the discernment process, and we have a directory of those coaches on our website where you can see all of them reach out to them individually. Many Parts (Ministries) doesn't host that training currently. That's something we hope to add in the future is actually having like programs through us. Right now, we just let you work directly with people that we have trained.

Sheila Nonato: 46:14

That's awesome.

Jill Simons: 46:15

And so you also mentioned that. Can you mention again the name of the book for teens? Yes, it's called "Passion and Purpose Charisms for Teens, and if you search Jill Simon's Charisms on Amazon, all six of my books will be the first ones to come up there.

Sheila Nonato: 46:29

And for the teen test do you have to be 13? Could you be like almost 13, 12, or is that specifically for 13 and up?

Jill Simons: 46:38

So 14 and up is kind of our main recommendation yes, that's the main recommendation.

Jill Simons: 46:43

The like unwritten part is that if you have a mature, typically female they can usually take it as young as 12. Never yet met a male student that I felt was ready before 14 because of the self-reporting gap. Not because they don't have charisms, not because they're not capable of using them, it's just the ability to be accurate about themselves is very much undeveloped at that stage, but some precocious girls will be able to do it a little bit earlier. You are the best judge of your own child, though, so that's what I would say is that if you're like, no, I know my kid's ready. You know better than me about where they are at personally, there can absolutely be outliers.

Jill Simons: 47:28

We don't do anything to like gatekeep it in any way. That's just our recommendation. That was really the design. Intent is for 14 and up, and if you were to have a younger child, do it and there would be to like a low identity score, maybe they wouldn't have like any green charisms or something like that on the chart. Maybe they wouldn't have like any green charisms or something like that on the chart. That would just tell me that they aren't quite there yet and to circle back in a year or two and let them reassess with just that higher level of self-awareness.

Sheila Nonato: 47:59

Okay, so if a teen does the test, so as a mom I'd like to help them along. Is it helpful to have your book then to sort of guide guide in that process, or yeah?

Jill Simons: 48:12

So if yes, I would say after they have results, the most important thing is for them to have sources of information. So if you are interested in becoming that source of information, we absolutely have everything available for you to be able to do that. We have, like I said, there's, six different books, all very exhaustive about being able to understand the discernment process, what charisms are, what we would expect to be coming up during all of those processes, so you can learn those things yourself. You can also be involved in the communities, like I talked about, and you can also learn with our podcast. You can also be involved in the communities, like I talked about, and you can also learn with our podcast if you're more of an auditory learner than a reader.

Jill Simons: 48:54

We have a lot of episodes. It's called Charisms for Catholics. It's free, of course, like all podcasts are. That allows you to learn about these things and that can be something that you can just do together as a family. You can put on the episodes about the individual charism that your teen ranked highly for when you're driving to school or on a family road trip and just have conversations about do they understand that? Do you understand that? Where do you think you've seen that in their lives and you can just really be a resource of information and clarity for them throughout that process and that's the most important role I think to take is to be the person that maybe, like, brings the attention back to that, continues the conversation around it, but recognizing also that this is something of theirs to steward, especially as teenagers, as they grow, and not necessarily something that you have to feel amazing about how it's being steward, because it's it's not on your paper at the end of the day. Absolutely help, absolutely be a resource.

Jill Simons: 49:57

But the best thing you can do for your teens is for you to expose them to this and then be diligent about, visually for them, learning about and discerning your own charisms so that they actually have this template of.

Jill Simons: 50:13

This is what we're going for. This is what it's going to be like eventually. This is when I have to fly across the country to go talk. I talk to my kids and I'm like it's not that I don't want to be with you guys, it's because it is my role to be obedient and this is something your dad and I have discerned, is a part of my charisms that I'm really responsible for, and so then they're able to look at that with a kind of pride of like mom's doing what she's supposed to do and that's really cool, versus this is something that's taking away from us and we're constantly talking about what's that going to be for you guys and this is something that we see maybe coming up and they're much younger, they're not at the teen assessment point, but that can be translated then for the high schoolers, where you're able to actually kind of verbally process your own journey and why it is you do what you do, based on your own charisms with them.

Sheila Nonato: 51:06

And if they find a charism that they're not quite ready yet for it, I guess it's okay to just come back to it, maybe next year or a couple of years from now.

Jill Simons: 51:16

Yeah, typically, if there's something that I, there's a variety of things that could be going on there A lot of times it's going to be a courage gap. Sometimes it could be that this is like has not really been given in fullness, where you're not really quite capable of using it yet. Maybe there's some identity healing that needs to happen. A lot of different things can be going on, but I would say, as long as there is a few things that you can focus on using from a good place of not trying to earn your worth, not trying to prove to people that you're a good person, where you can actually just like I want to freely give this to build the church, then that is enough at that. At that stage, if they can come away with one, two, three would be great, but if it's only one or two, that's okay, but I would not just let it go for forever.

Jill Simons: 52:07

I think that's a great place where you as a parent can like leverage technology, put it on your Google calendar, you know, 18 months out, to like remind Lucy about such and such charism and just kind of circle back. Because, like I said a lot of times it's a courage gap. A lot of times it's like they are not at a place where they can trust God quite that much, and that's okay. We we're constantly growing in that, and I think that's the only place that becomes a problem is when we're like, okay, not right now, and then it just gets permanently set aside. I think if there's, if you create some kind of backstop for yourself, structures for yourself, to make sure that it comes back around I do this for so many things in my spiritual life that I'll put on my calendar at future dates to kind of remind me to come back that can be a great way to just sort of meet them where they're at, but also not completely let it go, okay.

Sheila Nonato: 53:04

And just to sort of, if there are any listeners out there who are thinking, you know when you think of charism they might think charismatic, like that's not necessarily like the same thing.

Jill Simons: 53:16

Right, correct, well so this is so similar to the gifts conversation where I'm just like Catholic church there's so many words we could have thought of different words for different things, because all of these words being used in different ways does certainly muddy the water. So charismatic means relating to the free gift given to the lady, like the free gift of grace given to the lady. That's what it means. And so charismatic, like the charismatic renewal, charismatic masses. All of these things are relating to the free gifts of grace given by the Holy Spirit to the lady. That is true.

Jill Simons: 53:52

But the charismatic movement, the way that we would think about it, and that kind of like, you know, almost Catholic Pentecostalism, where we have this like emphasis on very specific iterations of the Holy Spirit healing, prophecy, praying in tongues, things like that those are things that are valid opportunities for the laity to be exploring the free gift of grace that they've given them.

Jill Simons: 54:20

But that's only about 7% of the free gifts of grace that the Holy Spirit gives to the church, and charism looks at the whole hundred percent like spectrum that it can be. So it is, though it might be uncomfortable for a person with administration and service and giving to call themselves charismatic when they're doing those things because, from their perspective, their life is spreadsheets and stacking chairs and writing checks. That is still a charismatic expression of the faith, and so I think that I, my personal gifts and spirituality aligns very strongly with the charismatic renewal movement, and so I found a great home there. That said, I work with thousands of people for whom that is not the case, and that is completely fine and does not have anything to do one way or the other with your ability to have and use your charisms, which are also confusingly charismatic.

Sheila Nonato: 55:28

Okay, that's good to know. In case somebody is wondering do I have to be charismatic? And no, you don't just have to be Catholic or Christian.

Sheila Nonato: 55:36

actually, Is it only

Jill Simons: 55:38

Baptized. Yes, anyone validly baptized, so so it would be. Is it a Baptism that the Holy, that the, I'm sorry, that the Roman Catholic church would recommend or recognize as being a baptism, that, yes, you have got charism. So this is all in common with our Protestant brothers and sisters and they're way better at talking about this honestly than we are because I think that the treasure chest of the Catholic church is so just so enormous that we kind of like left lost this one in the back left corner for a couple hundred years and we're really just rediscovering the huge gift that this is.

Jill Simons: 56:10

That, I think, is very specific for this time, because there's so many options now and there's so much noise that the Holy spirit, I think, in its wisdom, really has has elevated this conversation about personal spiritual gifts to give us a tool to combat that, to be able to better understand, like, okay, yes, I can be a hundred thousand different things when I grew up, whereas growing up in rural France, there was like maybe six jobs you could do, you know, and there was so much smaller area of places you could go in your life and and then, given like the technology and all that, in any given moment.

Jill Simons: 56:51

There's probably a hundred thousand different things you could be doing, even after you've chosen your vocation and chosen your job. The, the charisms, helps us, like put the horse blinders on, like, okay, sure, yes, there's so many things, can't do all of them. I'm going to actually sit with and create some silence, actually understand what it is that is specific to me, and I'm going to block out everything else. And that's something that I think happened way more organically at earlier ages of the church that we're really needing to actually be intentional about and make space for now.

Sheila Nonato: 57:32

And was there anything that I did not touch upon that you'd like to share with the listeners?

Jill Simons: 57:38

I don't think so. This was awesome, Like wide ranging, covered, kind of all the high points. I think the biggest thing is that the devil loves to tell people who listen to sort of introductory episodes like this be like, "oh, but that's not you. Like, you don't actually have anything to offer. This isn't actually, this is for people who have podcasts and write books and all of these things."

Jill Simons: 57:58

And it's just such a lie that the whole goal is to get you feeling like you are expendable to the church.

Jill Simons: 58:06

Like, you know you're doing your Sunday obligation and raising your family and doing your best, but like who would really notice if you weren't there? And that is such a such a lie and it is so pervasive in the church and it is so malignant within the church for people to believe that because there is 100% someone in your home, someone in your parish, someone in your Bible study going without. If you do not use your charisms, like this is. This is taking food out of somebody's mouth in some way. This is removing a grace from somebody else's life. If you don't do these things, they are full of joy to do, they are full of fruit to use and we, Sheila and I, need you to do these things because we are in the Body of Christ with you, and when it says in Scripture, when one part suffers, we all suffer with it and we're living in a body content with just such malnourishment and struggle because we're not recognizing how to be healthy individual cells in the body of Christ that create a healthy whole.

Sheila Nonato: 59:21

Yes, absolutely, and I sort of liken it to, you know, on the airplane, you put your life vest on first and then you can help your children. And before doing this podcast and writing, returning to writing, I was actually a stay at home mom for 11 years, or maybe more now 12 years but I just, yeah, I had that. You know the devil came and said you know what you're doing. You know I feel like small in comparison to other women who were working and but then, as I've been sort of growing in my faith and learning about, you know, other stay at home moms who are listening to this, you know it's, it's a big job, motherhood is a big job that you know.

Sheila Nonato: 1:00:02

Maybe the rewards or the fruits of your, of your labor are going to be seen later on in life, or maybe in heaven, we don't know. But we pour ourselves into our families and sometimes we do forget about ourselves. But knowing, you know, the gifts, the care sorry, the charisms that the Holy Spirit has, you know, given us or has empowered us with, that can really help us in our own motherhood, in our own families, to sort of inspire our own children. That you know there's no such thing as I'm just a mom, like there's no such thing, because it's a big, big job that you know.

Sheila Nonato: 1:00:41

Unfortunately a lot of young women are not choosing at this time, but it is very, it's hard, but it's fruitful and very rewarding. And also having your identity rooted in Christ, anchored in Christ, and knowing that identity. I think this test will help you in that, to sort of secure you know who you are in Christ and not to belittle that, because there's no such thing as a small vocation. So I really thank you for joining us, and can you tell us please where can we find you?

Jill Simons: 1:01:13

Yes, if you go to manypartsministries. com, everything I've talked about in this episode will be accessible from there. The two other places that you can go that we talked about is straight to Amazon to buy the physical copies of the book. We have digital copies of the book on our websites and then also, if you want to just listen to our podcast in a podcast app, wherever you're listening to this. Now we're on YouTube, we're on all the podcast app just at Many Parts Ministries, and the show is called Charisms for Catholics.

Sheila Nonato: 1:01:41

Well, thank you so much. That is an awesome show, so I do recommend everyone to listen to that. Thank you so much again for your time and for bearing with us with our technical difficulties. I sincerely appreciate it, and God bless you and your ministry and your family.

Jill Simons: 1:01:54

You too, Sheila, God bless.

Sheila Nonato: 1:01:55

Take care, thank you, bye-bye. Thank you for listening to the Veil and Armour podcast.

Co-hosts: 1:02:14

I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom today. Please subscribe to our podcast and YouTube channel and please spread the word. Let's Be Brave, let's Be Bold and Be Blessed together.