46. Finding God Between "I Do" and Forever: Finding Holiness in wedding and marriage preparation for young Catholic brides

A Young Catholic Bride prepares for her marriage in Paris, France.
Sheila speaks with Cassandre Verheslt from Paris, France, who has some bittersweet news for us!
Stay tuned to find out!

0:01 Cassandre's quote: Growing closer to Jesus
0:32 Welcome1:07 "Love is patient, love is kind." 1 Corinthians 1-13
2:39 Opening prayer
3:10 Cassandre's Announcement
5:10 Understanding French Wedding Traditions
5:55 Church Wedding follows the civil wedding
6:57 Do most people do the church wedding?
7:40 Marriage Preparation
10:30 Finding the dress
13:30 A veil?
14:17 Wedding cake Traditions
14:47 Princess Diana and Prince Charles' Wedding Cake
15:24 "Are you saving a slice of your wedding cake for next year?"
15:54 Sheila's wedding cake fiasco
17:44 Q: How did you meet?
22:45 Marriage prep
23:14 Blooper - cameo of my daughter
28:09 The 4 Pillars of Marriage
30:07 Marriage prep tips
31:51 "Find the good in what is bothering me"
33:19 "Was prayer part of your courtship?"
35:40 An hour of adoration per week and Mass
37:01 The Sanctity of Marriage mirroring the Holy Trinity
37:41 Final prayers and Congratulations to Cassandre and her husband

To find an online prayer group and join over a million people around the world praying together, pelase visit the free Hozana App: https://hozana.org
A free online Rosary prayer App is also available: https://rosario.app/en/

Chapters

• 0:00 The Power of Growing Closer to God
• 6:09 Navigating French Wedding Traditions
• 16:12 Finding Love in a Parish Prayer Group
• 21:42 Understanding Gender Differences in Marriage
• 30:42 Finding Strength Behind Weaknesses
• 34:02 The Essential Role of God and Prayer in Marriage
• 38:42 Final Blessings and Congratulations

Transcript

Casssandre Verhelst: 0:00

If we grow closer to the Lord, we're going to grow closer to each other, and so if we want to get closer to each other, we need to grow closer to the Lord because, by nature, it's going to make us become closer to each other. So I thought that was super impressive, because if you do keep your eyes on them, keep your eyes on the prize, if you keep your eyes on the prize of Jesus' love.

Co-Host: 0:25

I think you're going to get there.

Casssandre Verhelst: 0:26

Because it's a grace and you have to have confidence in the fact that the Lord is taking that commitment with the both of us.

Sheila Nonato: 0:36

Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast. This is your host, Sheila Nonato. I'm a stay-at-home mom and a freelance Catholic journalist, Seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the inspiration of Our Lady. Host, Sheila Nonato. I'm a stay-at-home mom and a freelance Catholic journalist, Seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the inspiration of Our Lady. I strive to tell stories that inspire, illuminate and enrich the lives of Catholic women to help them in living out our vocation of raising the next generation of leaders and saints.

Co-Host: 1:00

Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour podcast, where stories come alive through a journalist's lens and mother's heart.

Sheila Nonato: 1:07

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful.

Sheila Nonato: 1:13

It is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way. It is not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Now I know in part, then I shall understand fully even as I have been fully understood.

Sheila Nonato: 1:42

So faith, hope, love, abide, these three, but the greatest of these is love."

Sheila Nonato: 1:52

Welcome to Cassandre Verhelst, and it is bittersweet, as she's getting married in a week: the civil wedding, and then the wedding and the church after that. But she's also going to be leaving Hozana and I'm very sad about that. But I'm still going to be going to Hosanna to you know, pray with the community. But yes, Cassandre, please tell us first of all, how are you doing?

Casssandre Verhelst: 2:17

I'm doing very good. I'm super excited to get married, and so I'm. With all of those emotions, I'm looking forward to this new chapter and a new life together with my fiancé okay, well, amazing well let's start with a prayer then, if you would mind please yeah, " plaine de grâce.

Cassandre Verhelst: 2:41

Le Seigneur est avec vous. Vous êtes bénie entre toutes les femmes, et Jésus, le fruit de vos entrailles est béni. Sainte Marie, mère de Dieu, priez pour nos pauvres pécheurs, maintenant et à l'heure de notre mort. Amen."

Sheila Nonato: 2:59

Au nom du Pere, et du fils, et du Saint Esprit, Amen.", that's as far as the French goes, for me it's been a while, but thank you for that beautiful prayer in French of the Hail Mary. So, yeah, sorry for being nosy, but your wedding is in a week, the civil wedding. Tell us again, how does it work? In France, there are two weddings, yeah.

Casssandre Verhelst: 3:20

Well, in France, you have to first get married at the town hall before you're allowed to get married at the church hall, before you're allowed to get married at the church, and so we decided to do this in two different spots. The town hall wedding will be in my fiance's region, and then we're going to get married religiously. And that's how you call the difference the civil wedding and the religious wedding at least French between Paris and Brussels, because I'm actually from Brussels, and so midway we found a church that could host us for a mass, and then we'll have a small reception next to that, and so the first step is this Saturday. So I'm very excited. It's a small step because it's just papers, but nonetheless it's the step where you change your name Legally, you become Mrs and not Miss and your new last name, and you officialize and you make official your engagement in front of society.

Sheila Nonato: 4:30

Okay, and so everyone has to go through this right. You can't skip the civil right, yeah.

Casssandre Verhelst: 4:36

Or else it won't be recognized, unless you're very sly and you go to another country to get married.

Sheila Nonato: 4:41

Okay, okay, and then so tell us. So you have a dress, but it's not your. It's not your wedding dress, right, it's a simpler dress.

Casssandre Verhelst: 4:51

Yeah, it's a simpler dress because, I mean, you can do it as you like, and we decided to kind of keep it simple because it's it's in the countryside, it's with just our family, you can kind of choose the form you want it to take. Legally, you have to have at least two witnesses for the couple, so one each, and we decided to have two each because that's the to ask some of our friends to be there on that special day. And then, concretely, I'm going to have a red dress with flowers and and then we invite to. We invited our aunts and uncles and our grandmothers and our family and our a few of our close friends to to come in and spend the weekend in the countryside right after so, to spend some time all together.

Sheila Nonato: 5:44

Oh, wow, okay, Beautiful, beautiful, and and then. So then, after when is the church wedding? Do you have to wait for a certain period of time, or how do you?

Casssandre Verhelst: 5:54

No, and actually, on the contrary, you ideally get married civilly right before your religious wedding. Um, because one of the priests that um that prepared us prepares couples here in France, in Paris, said I mean, if you end your engagement and you decide not to get married in the end, but you got married civilly a year before or three months before, first of all it takes away some of your freedom and, second of all, you'll be divorced.

Casssandre Verhelst: 6:22

First of all, it takes away some of your freedom and second of all, you'll be divorced. You'll be divorced because you might not have taken up and gone through with the religious ceremony but in the eyes of the state you were married. And so often there are kind of two teams those that get married just before because they make it one event, and then those that for different circumstances, because it's important to get married in your hometown or because it's important for this or that reason it's separated and with more time in between.

Sheila Nonato: 6:56

Okay. So do most people do the church wedding, or do they just like if they're not Catholic, do they just, I guess? Or even if they are Catholic, do they still do the church? Or is they are catholic, do they do they still do the church? Or is it sort of a few right now and yeah?

Casssandre Verhelst: 7:11

Well, they're no, honestly, not a lot of people get married at church. And and what what I found pretty impressive was, um, we went to with paul adrian, to a marriage prep, um, in our parish, because to get married in a pair found to get married in the catholic church, at least in france you have to get married in a parish. To get married in the Catholic Church, at least in France, you have to have gone through some sort of marriage preparation, either with a priest, with a religious community or in your parish. And so the priest that's marrying us asked us to go to a marriage prep in our parish. And so we went to the parish closest to our new house, our new apartment, and there I was surprised because there was an array and just different types of people that were there people that are both firm believers in the Catholic faith and in Christ and Jesus and, you know, in the our Lord, and then other couples where you know one has been baptized and doesn't really know where they're at and the other one not at all, and or one that's, you know, firm in their faith and the other one not sure. But and then you ask them why they get those that are not sure why are they getting married at church?

Casssandre Verhelst: 8:26

Some say it's because to please the other, the one that actually believes, and those that are kind of hesitant because they don't know where they're at. Well, they say because it's more solemn, it adds some weight. Is that the right word? Yeah, solemn, yeah, absolutely. It adds some weight. Is that the right word? Yeah, exhalam, yeah, absolutely. And to me that just causes questions and brings up questions, because you're like, what's the point? I mean just because you know, in the traditional sense of things, people go to church to get married, and so you don't believe in it. But it's what's been done. So there's, you know, on the one side there's tradition, and so you're, because people want to get married in a church, it obliges them to go to marriage prep in a parish, and so it obliges them to go back to a parish and to reconnect, at least, you know, three times on the three different Sundays, or at least once, if you know, depends on which on the parish is the program, because sometimes it's one day, you know, or 12 times during the week, or doesn't really matter. But so you're asking them to come back and to interact with the Catholic Church. So at least there's that.

Casssandre Verhelst: 9:34

Then, on the other hand and maybe I'm too idealist I ask I question the process and ask well, what's the point? I question the process and ask well, what's the point? I mean, if the person does not believe, why bring them here? Because it's a marriage of an uneducated I don't know what the word is in the catechism but a person that does not know. They do not know the graces they will receive, and so because they do not know, whether they get a civil wedding or a Catholic wedding, it doesn't matter, because they're unaware of the graces they will receive.

Casssandre Verhelst: 10:13

And if they were unaware and they only had a civil wedding but then they become aware because they get familiar with the Catholic faith, well then the graces of the Catholic wedding can fall onto them, but it doesn't matter. The thing that changes is the moment when they start believing. And so if they start believing after the wedding, why not get just married at the town hall? So that's kind of my position, but you might not. I mean, it's only my thoughts. I totally understand. It's kind of my position, but you might not.

Sheila Nonato: 10:43

I mean, okay, yeah, I totally understand. It's kind of like First Communion yeah, is that you know? I mean it's great that they do receive it, right. But, um, I think some people find this like you were talking about prep, preparation so the first for some First Communion, you know, those uh, meetings, preparation, like some people find it inconvenience, right, because like they just want to get to the event and then the party, because you know it's nice to see all dressed up. You know white dress and the veil and everything. So for your dress, actually, are you gonna be wearing a veil? I don't want to give anything away, you know, in case your fiancee would hear about it, but are you wearing a veil, are you? How did you first of all, how did you find this dress?

Casssandre Verhelst: 11:27

It's funny because, um, actually mom, um, found the name of the, um, of the, of the man that's making the dress, of the tailor, um, because she herself went to that tailor 20 years ago for, um, a dress, not her wedding dress, but just a dress to go to a wedding and um, and so it's a couple, the wife and the husband and the wife, when we came back with mom, um, you know, a few months ago to get my dress made, she's like yeah, I recognize you, you came for a purple dress. No, and I was shocked. I was like how does this lady remember that mom came for a purple dress 20 years ago? But so it's, um, it's belg, it's a Belgian tailor that makes custom dresses, and so I found one that I liked and I asked him to create kind of a mix between different styles, and I'm going back next week, end of next week, to see the final results. I'm very excited.

Sheila Nonato: 12:22

Wow, beautiful. And are you going to look like Grace Kelly? How is the style? Audrey Hepburn, what's your style?

Casssandre Verhelst: 12:30

I like things that are elegant but not over the top, so it's going to be quite simple. Simple and structured. I hope that Adrien will listen. With a collar, oh, okay, with a collar.

Co-Host: 12:44

Oh, ok, the collar, and then.

Casssandre Verhelst: 12:46

OK, because that's.

Sheila Nonato: 12:48

Yeah, for me as well. I'm wondering if Prince, Princess Grace, she became Princess Grace after she married, I think, the Prince of Monaco, Grace Kelly. Yeah, I think she might have had that collar. I'm trying to remember now, but yeah.

Casssandre Verhelst: 13:00

Well, I think it was more closed in my, in my. Okay, yeah, it was closed. Yeah, yeah, it was yeah. No, it was very closed and long sleeves no, and long sleeves yes yes, yes yeah, yeah, yeah, or maybe like megan markel, but it's like structured sort of no, exactly, exactly, kind of like that, yeah, kind of like that and no not lace.

Sheila Nonato: 13:21

Okay, it's hot, it's going to be hot, so right in summer, um, and are you wearing a veil? Did you decide to do something else? Yeah?

Casssandre Verhelst: 13:30

Yeah, a veil. Um, I'm not very tall. I'm not very tall, so, um, it won't be very long, okay, um, but uh, yeah, a veil. And um, and I would have loved to wear my mother's veil, but it's not the right white and so it's not. I won't be able to use it. But I don't know if in the U. S. you also have this tradition, but sometimes moms use their veils to cover their baby's cribs afterwards.

Sheila Nonato: 14:00

Oh, wow, I didn't know about this, I would have done it.

Casssandre Verhelst: 14:08

I guess I didn't know what I would have done it. No, I guess I didn't know what do I do with this? Yeah, so to cover your baby's crib.

Casssandre Verhelst: 14:12

Um, yeah, against mosquitoes, but also for decoration.

Sheila Nonato: 14:13

Beautiful, well in. I think it's in North America, I'm not sure, but apparently you keep your wedding cake, a slice of it, in the freezer right here and you eat it later. I don't know if that's such a such a great, but actually um, since my husband is in the army and his Regiment, uh, where he used to be um, is related to king charles. Prince charles, when he was still a prince he's the prince charles was the Colonel-in-Chief of this regiment, this Canadian regiment.

Sheila Nonato: 14:46

So when Prince Charles and Princess Diana were married, they sent over the top of their wedding cake to the regiment, the Canadian regiment (Royal Regiment of Canada), and it's sitting somewhere in Toronto. I'm not going to say where because in case someone wants to do something to it, but anyway it's sitting safely somewhere in Toronto. Do something to it, but anyway it's sitting safely somewhere in Toronto. The top is perfectly preserved because I guess they used fondant and some kind of fruitcake or something. Yeah, I took pictures of it and there's like a note on it. I think it's, you know, officially from the couple to the soldiers, but they decided not to eat it so they just preserved it. But anyway, I don't know, it's like's like. Are you gonna be doing that saving a slice and eating it a year later?

Cassandre Verhelst: 15:30

Um well, we, I'm not, no, we won't have a cake I have tons of little um, uh, tons of little cakes and little um desserts, but not one big cake, not one big one okay, okay, no.

Sheila Nonato: 15:44

Okay, that's probably a good idea because they can last. They can, you know, cost up to $1,000, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, ours was 600. I don't know it was like the whole pricing of how many people. And then it was like I wanted it to have Filipino flowers and like made out of fondant. Anyway, you know, okay, I know my husband's going to listen to this, but because, like you were saying, there were desserts at our reception, there were lots of desserts and chocolate cake and people did not eat the wedding cake, so we had to take most of it home. It's bad, anyways, but it tasted good after a year later, perfect. Anyway, it was the most expensive cake, but you know, it's okay, it's all right.

Casssandre Verhelst: 16:33

At least you know you have a story to tell on the podcast.

Sheila Nonato: 16:37

Yeah, and the really terrible one is, my husband ordered this cake topper from Texas and we were trying to keep what I was going to wear a secret. So he said can you email this lady what your dress would look like? So this lady made his uniform, the figurine in his uniform, red scarlet uniform, beautiful. And then I was made into a figurine and it was supposed to go on top of the cake. But because of all the you know how it is right, like so many things, to remember, and I forgot it. I forgot it and I couldn't, I couldn't go back to get it, it was too far. Anyways, I feel so bad about it.

Sheila Nonato: 17:19

But our 15th anniversary is coming up, so I was thinking I'm going to have a cake, not a $600 cake. I might make it myself and stick it on there. I don't know. Yeah, he doesn't want to see it. So I don't know if it's like cause trauma? No, I'm just joking. I'm just joking, but anyway, back to you. So I forgot to ask you. So, your soon-to-be husband, how did you meet? And then the proposal yeah, yeah, if you don't mind.

Casssandre Verhelst: 17:48

No, of course not um, we actually met on exchange when we were students, um, at the um, at the parish group, at the students um prayer group, on wednesday evenings, there were um, there are prayer, there are prayer, there are prayer groups in that parish, still for students and um, and so I I noticed, quite, uh, I noticed him and I thought, okay, I want to be friends with this guy and and he had noticed me at um, at a Mass on a previous Sunday, and so it was um. So maybe just that a word of encouragement to uh, to make your uh, your daughters and your sons or your yourself um, go to go to Catholic um groups where, where students and when people can can meet up because, um, you can find the love of your life and um, and so I had seen him and I think I, I'm, I think that's really a grace that I received and, and so I had seen him and I think I'm, I think that's really a grace that I received, and and I and I thank the Lord for that Because I very, from very early on, after maybe two or three weeks of knowing him, I thought I thought to myself, okay, I'm going to marry this guy, and so I am, and so I knew that at the bottom of my heart kind of like this, this baseline of decision, but at the bottom of my heart kind of like this baseline of decision, but at the same time I thought we're so different, there are so many things that are a little bit off or that I'm not at ease with or that I don't understand, or I don't understand why he's reacting like that and why he's testing me, and so I think we were both kind of reserved and I think that Paul Edrin was kind of testing me in the beginning to see, okay, who's this girl, and so that, you know, made us get to know each other. And we had to your standards, sheila, quite a long engagement because we were engaged for a year and a half, but I think it was a year and a half. That was really necessary because even if you have that kind of decision or that intuition at the beginning, it can get confirmed with time.

Casssandre Verhelst: 19:57

And our engagement had its ups and downs, because when you get to know someone, you get to know them entirely and you see all of their um, all of their traits, but also all the things that they're less proud of um and their weaknesses and so, and so you know, when you discover them, you have to ask yourself, okay, am I ready to love that and am I ready to to um, to commit myself to this person? And knowing that I had had that thought and that really deep intuition and peace when I thought of this guy and told myself, okay, I want to marry him, it was pretty impressive and actually pretty reassuring, because we are very different. But it was the first time that I thought, thought, okay, this is the person I'm going to marry because I can feel, I can see it and feel it. So that was um pretty lucky beautiful.

Sheila Nonato: 20:53

So, um, so I can understand what you mean, like the differences and, um, I guess, did you, how did you sort of navigate through that, did you? I mean, what was? Did it come out in the marriage prep or conversations about marriage after marriage prep? So yeah, how did you guys navigate that?

Casssandre Verhelst: 21:14

Yeah, I think what was the most interesting during this marriage prep, because with Peredron, what we did was we went to our local parish. What we did was we went to our local parish. But we also went on two different retreats, and one that was just incredible, in the south of France and if you know, the listeners speak French. I would so encourage them to look into that. It's by the friars of the Abbey of La Grasse, l-a-g-r-a-s-s-e, and they don't state themselves as marriage pros, but de facto they're very good. They're very good, and so they invite couples to come and spend a weekend at their abbey. But they also go to the main cities in France and there are 300 to 400 couples, so that's 800 people listening in auditoriums to what these followers have to say. It's impressive and it's very rich.

Casssandre Verhelst: 22:18

And then, maybe the thing that marked me the most was the fact that they really pushed on the statement that men and women are built differently. And you know, we know it, of course we know it, but really taking the time to understand it. Having different couples come and tell you you are different, you will react differently. Physically you are made different, emotionally You're made different, and the Lord wanted it that way. He created men and women, um, and he didn't, uh, copy and paste. And so, understanding that those, um, that we're going to complement each other, and then understand also that we are going to react differently to different to the same situation, and and so, uh, reacting differently to the same situation allows you to, um, to see.

Casssandre Verhelst: 23:10

Sheila, do you want me to start over?

Sheila Nonato: 23:12

Sorry, it's just, my daughter was jumping around. Hold on just a second. Can you just go over there, please? (Sheila is laughing) No, it's okay, sorry, sorry sorry, no, no, that's fine.

Casssandre Verhelst: 23:24

I thought when we edit audio it's easier to start over and cut.

Sheila Nonato: 23:27

Yeah, it's okay. So did you want to continue about the retreat?

Casssandre Verhelst: 23:31

Yeah, so maybe the thing that interested me the most and that marked me the most in that marriage prep was the fact that different couples and different priests and fathers gave us speeches and interventions on interventions isn't the right word gave us speeches on how we are different and we're going to react differently to the same situation, and so that's something that was the hardest for Paul-Hedri and me, because I think I'm very feminine and he's very masculine. I think I'm very feminine and he's very masculine, and so, but in the way of working in our brains and in our heads and in our reactions, and so dealing with ups and downs and a constant line, how do you make that fit? And so how do you make that fit? By knowing that you're going to react differently. And so knowing is from. Knowledge is power. Actually, we all know it and so I think that you advance and you accept your differences if you know that they're there and that you don't expect the other to react the same way like you. And so that's kind of, maybe on the more intellectual way of handling things.

Casssandre Verhelst: 24:43

And then, concretely as well, is how do you deal with the fact that you come from different families and that your mothers react differently and educate you differently?

Casssandre Verhelst: 24:52

You can have kind of the same global education and values and I think we're very lucky in the sense that we grew up in the same places with the same kind of background but the emotional education you get is completely different because you don't have the same person giving it to you.

Casssandre Verhelst: 25:10

And so now, as we're preparing our, our wedding and not preparing our marriage, but logistically preparing the wedding Well, you see that one family takes their decisions very in advance and then, once the decision has been made, you stick to it and you move on to the next, whereas I come from a family where we can talk 10 times about the same subject and until the moment where something's paid and we're past the deadline, we can come back on the decision 10, 12 times, it doesn't really matter and we're going to call each other back once then another time.

Casssandre Verhelst: 25:43

And just how do you mix the fact that you have one family that's straightforward and one family that's kind of in loops? You're educated in that way, and so you start thinking that way and then, and then again, the I think, the fact and what told me and is um, their, their, their virtues in both of those ways of working, and so we just need to grab the good in each and and put them together so we can create a better and and so. So that was kind of the education, and then the emotional and then the different things of you know, one person talks a lot and the other person listens not. Well, you have to make space for the other as well.

Sheila Nonato: 26:25

Okay, and so did you get. Were you asked to read books?

Cassandre Verhelst: 26:32

Yeah, different books.

Casssandre Verhelst: 26:34

Yeah, we had quite a big list actually, and I think the two that stood out were the book by those priests of La Grasse and another one by the Father Poitier (spelling?), who is a French-Parisian priest, and it's called "Since you have Decided to Love Each Other, in French, and that has been very insightful and it was impressive because it was a friend's mom that told us you guys should read this. It's more for married couples, but it can be interesting as well, and actually it's content that speaks to a variety of different people, from people that are discerning to those that have decided to get married, to those that are in their first years of marriage. It's because you have decided to love each other. Here are the things that you're going to have to do, and that kind of echoes with at the moment.

Casssandre Verhelst: 27:31

In France, to get married at church, you have to write a declaration of intention. I don't know if you have to do that also in canada, actually.

Sheila Nonato: 27:40

No, we don't, no.

Casssandre Verhelst: 27:42

And so it's me, Cassandre, um, on the, on the. You know, right before my wedding, I want to commit myself and I commit to um. This, that and this is in that and one of the, and so it's. We have to talk about the four pillars of marriage, which are fidelity, loyalty, and loyalty and fidelity are the same thing. So fidelity, freedom. Fruitfulness so how you will bear fruit through your children or, if you don't have children, in another way. And indissolubility, so the fact that you're getting married for life and when you start with the last one, you decide to love each other every day, and so the book that the priest, the Father Pote, wrote really responds and echoes with that.

Sheila Nonato: 28:41

Wow, I'm really impressed with the level of maturity that you and your fiancé have, because most people are probably worried about the party, right, like what's going to be the hors d'oeuvres, what's the main course, of course. But you guys are like, how do we navigate through our weaknesses, through our differences, how do we work through that? Because, like you said, men and women are different and they have different ways of communicating. I think that's the main. If there is one thing that I can impart on you, having been married for 15 years, is communication is so important.

Sheila Nonato: 29:22

Prayer, obviously number one, and then communication with each other and with God. But, yeah, that's really because you don't want to find out later on that you can't communicate, because that would be well, it's not impossible to overcome. But if you're already ahead of the game and you have some strategies to try to understand each other, um and that's amazing, is there? Okay, do you have any tips? Like what, what? What are like the top tips you found out? Uh, that you can share with, with people who are preparing to get married, who are engaged?

Casssandre Verhelst: 29:58

Yeah, Well, I think again at that marriage prep in the south of France. Something that really marked me and that I left the retreat with was a couple that said that they had been married and they had gone through some rough patches. And when they were in those rough patches they saw a lot of the other's weaknesses and the bad traits. And they said something that was interesting was, rather than being angry about your spouse's weaknesses, ask yourself, because behind every weakness is a strength. What is the strength behind that weakness that made me fall in love with him and make the effort, and make the conscious effort to switch your mindset and to go find the strength behind that weakness.

Casssandre Verhelst: 30:44

And so the wife gave an example of saying he drove me nuts because he didn't take any more decisions. I had to do all of the. I had to take all of the decisions. Think of you know, move the family and the wagon forward. And it was super hard for me.

Casssandre Verhelst: 31:03

And she said but then I realized that behind the fact of not taking decisions is a person that thinks a lot and that analyzes the different possibilities and that sees the outcomes and imagines the outcomes. And she didn't have that strength because she was more spontaneous. And so she said, the moment I realized that, behind the fact that he was not taking decisions, but he was thinking about the different consequences and he was sharing them with me, it allowed me to then take the decision that I thought was best, in knowing what the outcome would be, or at least having thought of it. And so it was impressive because, she said, we became better when I realized that it was complimentary and when I made the effort to go find the good behind what was bothering me.

Casssandre Verhelst: 31:54

And so that was one of the examples that she gave me. And so that was one of the examples that she gave, and it was um it. It really echoed with me because, going into that retreat, I was asking myself the commitment is huge. How are you sure that in 40 years, you're not going to be exasperated by some of your husband's traits? Well, you won't be exasperated if, behind what exasperates you, you think of the positive and the strengths that are in him.

Sheila Nonato: 32:25

Yes, and that's definitely a positive way of looking at something that might irritate a person about someone. And you know, when you you're dating it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, but I guess when you're you know living together 24/ 7 it might but having that supernatural outlook that you know, yeah, everyone has faults and weaknesses and and yeah, why?

Sheila Nonato: 32:52

Why did I fall in love with this person in the first place? It's not because of you, know, like I was able to overcome whatever he didn't uh, put the remote back in the right place or something, I don't know, whatever people have find annoying, but um. But also to remember to come back to the sort of the glue, uh, of prayer, as you guys started off in prayer group or in the youth group, which I'm sure you prayed, but was prayer also part of your courtship? Yeah, it was.

Sheila Nonato: 33:24

Yeah, can you tell us?

Casssandre Verhelst: 33:25

Yeah, absolutely. Well, when you don't get invited on a date, but you do get invited to mass, you're likely to say yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and one of the things that one of the priests told us is that there's no conjugal happiness without conjugal holiness and there's no conjugal holiness without conjugal prayer, and so that's one of the big reflection access that we had during our engagement was how or at least on my side how are we going to pray together?

Casssandre Verhelst: 34:02

Because you have to mix a lot of things, and in those lots of things you have to mix is your prayer sensibility and the way you pray. So you have those that pray very silently and very internally and those that are much more charismatic, and in French, and those that are much more charismatic and in French we say, those that unscrew light bulbs. I don't know if you have the same joke in English, but so how do you mix that? And for me, that was kind of not a stress point, but something that I didn't know how we were going to do.

Casssandre Verhelst: 34:33

And one of the priests told us do not ever stop compromising, and especially not in your prayer life, because the moment you stop compromising in your prayer life, your conjugal prayer life, is the moment when you're going to stop compromising in everything. It's the most important thing. So never, ever say okay, we're incompatible in the way we pray, we're not going to pray together, incompatible in the way we pray, we're not going to pray together. And so the answer that I got, at least during this marriage prep and this engagement time, was you don't have to pray half an hour together every day. It's completely okay to just say the Our Father together, and that can be your conjugal prayer, and you might have different views, sheila, but having just something easy and a basis and use as a basis and, with Paul Adrien, what we we so we do have different ways of praying, but we can agree on our father and we can also agree on adoration and mass, and so that's something that really that keeps us going together and that makes us meet in the middle is we have an hour of adoration per week together and then we try and go to Mass on top of Sundays, but go to Mass together once a week. And it's not asking for personal input. I mean the Lord is already there and so you just have to go and meet Him.

Casssandre Verhelst: 35:58

He's waiting for you there,

Sheila Nonato: 36:02

Yes, and I really like how you phrase that. Like you know, the path to marital holiness is really through. Well, the path to marital happiness, sorry is through. Marital holiness is through prayer, and I think, dr scott, hon was the one who said marriage is the exchange of. It's a covenant. Uh, the marriage covenant is an exchange of persons, and so your path to heaven is through your future husband and his is through you, and so the the holier you are, the more you're going to both go together in eternity, to spend eternity with God and with your children, god willing, yeah.

Casssandre Verhelst: 36:47

And maybe to add to that, Sheila and I don't know if we talked about it last time, but Zita of Habsburg (the Last Empress of Austria) explained how prayer worked in her marriage to her grandchildren by talking about a triangle, and on top of the triangle is the Lord, On the left was Charles and on the right she put her name and she said if we grow closer to the Lord, we're going to grow closer to each other.

Casssandre Verhelst: 37:12

And so if we want to get closer to each other, we need to grow closer to the Lord because by nature, it's going to make us get closer to each other. We need to grow closer to the Lord because, by nature, it's going to make us become closer to each other. So I thought that was super impressive, because if you do keep your eyes on them, keep your eyes on the prize, if you keep your eyes on the prize of Jesus' love, I think you're going to get there, because it's a grace and you have to have confidence in the fact that the Lord is taking that commitment with the both of us.

Sheila Nonato: 37:42

Thank you very much to Cassandre Verhelst for being a guest on our podcast since last year, starting with the Million Roses for Mother Mary campaign, and then talking about the Paris Olympics, and the Three Million roses for Mother Mary campaign which was achieved by Hozana prayer warriors, as I call them, and I do wish her and her, I pray for her and her husband to have a beautiful and holy marriage and hope to see her again. Thank you, and God bless you, Cassandre, and your husband, and looking forward to chatting with you again Congratulations on your wedding, Miss Cassandre.

Sheila Nonato: 38:41

God bless, God bless. Thank you for listening to the Veil and Armour podcast.

Co-Host: 38:48

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