32. How to carry our daily crosses during Lent with Tammy Peterson and Queenie Yu

In this conversation, Tammy Peterson and Queenie Yu share their personal journeys of faith, and the transformative power of prayer and the Holy Rosary. They discuss the profound impact of suffering and the Cross on one's spiritual life and transformation. The conversation also delves into the significance of Mary as a model for womanhood and the  "feminine genius." 

They discuss the role of Mother Mary in their lives, the power of prayer and gratitude, and how personal struggles can lead to deeper faith. The dialogue emphasizes the significance of listening to God ,and taking "the next right step in life," echoing a saying from Tammy's husband, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson who was inspired by the philosopher Carl Jung, as well as the bonds formed through shared faith and prayer.

This interview was recorded on Oct. 9, 2024.

For Tammy Peterson's Podcast, please visit:

https://www.youtube.com/@tammypetersonpodcast

https://www.x.com/@tammy1peterson

https://www.instagram.com/@tammy.m.peterson

https://www.facebook.com/TammyPetersonPodcast

Correction: Tammy Peterson was a speaker at the Dynamic Women of Faith Conference in March 2024 in Toronto. However, the keynote speaker was EWTN's Kathleen Beckman.

Chapters

• 0:00 Finding Comfort in Prayer During Cancer
• 3:26 Introduction to Veil and Armour Podcast
• 9:36 The Beginning of Tammy and Queenie's Story of Friendship
• 15:44 The Power of Carrying Your Cross
• 23:06 Listening to God: Doing The Next Right Thing
• 33:35 The Miracle on Tammy and Jordan Peterson's Wedding Anniversary
• 40:07 The Next Right Thing and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Queenie Yu: 0:00

The amazing thing is you mentioned that you found a lot of comfort in the Rosary and some people, when they're in pain, they're just thinking or they're just praying to God that God would take away the source of their suffering. But the source of the suffering was still there. You still had your cancer, but you received comfort from the prayer.

Tammy Peterson: 0:19

Well, I had a big, you know, I had a huge change of heart when I told my son I was going to die and I looked at his response and saw the grief in his eyes that he was going to lose his mother and I saw the love that I had for him reflected back to me in a way that I had never had that done before and it was redeeming. You know, it was redeeming.

Sheila Nonato: 0:51

Hello and welcome to the Veil and Armour podcast. This is your host, Sheila Nonato. I'm a stay-at-home mom and a freelance Catholic journalist. Seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the inspiration of Our Lady. I strive to tell stories that inspire, illuminate and enrich the lives of Catholic women, to help them in living out our vocation of raising the next generation of leaders and saints.

Co-Host: 1:14

Please join us every week on the Veil and Armour podcast, where stories come alive through a journalist's lens and mother's heart.

Sheila Nonato: 1:23

This month the world celebrates women, their contributions, achievements and sacrifices. 30 years earlier, the late St John Paul II declared 1995 the year of the woman. He also published his letter to women where he wrote about the feminine genius. It is a countercultural view of women, contradicting radical feminist ideal. In his letter, Saint John Paul II highlighted women's God-given vocation, women's human dignity, equality and complementarity with men. A woman is called to be a mother, sometimes in the body, but always in the soul. Emily Stimson Chapman wrote succinctly and beautifully in The National Catholic Register about the feminine genius of women. Who is the ideal woman, the ideal mother? It is Our Lady who, sadly, is much maligned in our society because she embodies the opposite of worldly values and radical feminist ideals. Instead she embodies the opposite of worldly values and radical feminist ideals. Instead she embodies humility and.

Sheila Nonato: 2:28

God's truth that love is sacrifice. We know, as Our Lady and Our Lord have taught us, that the Christian life does not exist without love, service and sacrifice. To serve means to reign. St John Paul II wrote in his letter to Catholics called Mulieris Dignitatem, on the dignity and vocation of women. When Mary said yes to the angel Gabriel to answer God's call to become the mother of God, it was not a response of weakness but of strength. Mother Mary's seemingly meek and humble yes turned into her pivotal role in salvation history. We cannot have Jesus without Mary. After the fall of our first parents, adam and Eve, the gates of heaven were closed to all of us In his mercy. God said. Heaven can be opened once again after the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ. Jesus' life is so closely intertwined with his mother, a life that we can contemplate and emulate through the mysteries of the Holy Rosary. It was Our Lady's example of strength and this long-standing Catholic meditation of the Holy Rosary that serve as the bonds of friendship between Canadian podcaster Tammy Peterson and fellow Catholic convert Queenie Yu. Queenie journeyed with Tammy when she battled the cross of cancer and illness. How did Tammy take up her cross? How did Queenie have the boldness to share her faith with someone who was not yet a friend.

Sheila Nonato: 3:59

We will listen to part two of their story of faith, friendship and conversion. Listen P art Two of their story of faith, friendship and conversion. Let's begin with a prayer. Let's pray the Hail Mary, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen, hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you.

Sheila Nonato: 4:40

And finally, I just want to go back to. You had mentioned the Dynamic Women of Faith Conference over 500 women. You could hear a pin drop when you were speaking. Dorothy Pilarski, the organizer, had recognized your friendship. Both of you on stage gave you flowers. It was just a beautiful moment to witness, and you had also spoken during your speech about the cross, the crosses that you have carried, your illness, your daughter's illness, and I believe you had also spoken during your speech about the cross, the crosses that you have carried, your illness, your daughter's illness, and I believe you had also shared the story of your husband finding him in distress in your house. And how did all of these crosses? And, Queenie, you were there with Mrs Peterson when she was enduring the cross of her illness. How did all of these crosses? How were you able to carry all of these crosses? What can we learn from you?

Tammy Peterson: 5:33

Well, I think when my daughter was ill and she was ill from the time she was quite young, so I was quite young, I was only 30 when she was born and she started having trouble, pain when she was just in kindergarten so a little little girl. And so that would have been. She was born in 1992, so that would have been oh yeah, and it was when we moved from Harvard, from Boston, to Toronto. That was in 1998. That's when she started to show symptoms that I understood something was terribly wrong and I began to pray. I began to pray, but I prayed to my mother. I prayed to my mother. My mother was ill, she had dementia, so she was dying and she died in 2007.

Tammy Peterson: 6:33

So from then on, I would have been praying to my mother, and I realize now, in later years, that I was praying to what was best in my mother, and what's best in my mother is Mother Mary. So I was praying to Mother Mary to help. I was always asking my mom to help, help, help my daughter, help my daughter to find her way to health and protect her, and it was a daily practice of praying to my mother. And then you know, so that I think, when I began to realize that it was Mother Mary that I was praying to, and I didn't realize that until I was sick and Queenie brought me the rosary and I began to pray the rosary and it was powerful to me, and so then I began to pray directly to Mother Mary for her intercession and my troubles, and it was very powerful because it did help. It did help I didn't have as much pain.

Tammy Peterson: 7:46

So by the time I was well and my husband was sick, by then I had been praying for a very long time and had become much more sophisticated in my understanding of exactly even without entering into the church yet, even without entering into the church yet exactly what I was praying for, with the help of Queenie. And I had some priests actually who had reached out to me too, and so I talked to them. Father Fred Dolan and he still reaches out to me all the time, and at that point it was him and also the priest who works, Father Eric, Father Eric, Nicolai yes, his last name is Nicolai.

Co-Host: 8:37

Yes.

Tammy Peterson: 8:37

Yeah, and he came to me just before I went down to the doctor in the States who was going to look for this leak that was in my lymph system, and he blessed me before I left. Queenie asked if I wanted to be blessed and I said, "yes, I think that would be very helpful. And he came to my apartment where my husband and I were just before we left, and he blessed me and he told me to pray for gratitude and that would. That was very, uh, powerful for me, because I listened and I thought, pray for gratitude, okay. And so that began my journey of deeply, more deeply, understanding what it meant to pray for gratitude.

Tammy Peterson: 9:29

And I find now that if I'm too consumed by what's happened to me and what is concerning me, if I start to think about what I'm grateful for, that takes me out of my head, so that I'm not focusing on myself and I'm focusing on others. And when Queenie taught me the rosary, she'd say what is your intention? So then I'd think what's my intention? And at first it was, I know, pray for my mother who's passed away. So pray for all those who've passed away.

Tammy Peterson: 10:06

And then, I had a little. That was my first granddaughter and she was very tiny, and so pray for all the new babies. Okay, so pray for all the new babies. And then, you know, I would want to pray for my children who are young parents. Okay, well, pray for all the young parents. Young parents, okay, well, pray for all the young parents. And then pray for all the sick and dying, and pray for all the people in the hospital. I remember we prayed for all the peoples in the hospital. I was in the hospital.

Tammy Peterson: 10:34

So all those intentions, oh, when you get out of that, you're not thinking about yourself anymore and worrying about how downtrodden your life is or anything. I don't know, it just it's. It just seems like very practical. It seems like a very practical thing to do to pay attention to others, to give your best to others. Somehow that miraculously stops you from any of your preoccupations that you may have come in with of your own needs or your own inadequacies, because you're feeling like there's something missing. So you look to yourself what do I need? Maybe I need to shop on Amazon, right, maybe I need to go buy something. But when it turns out, actually, if you start doing things for others, those preoccupations, they just go away, because that isn't what we need. We don't need another thing in our lives. We need each other. We need to help lift up each other. That's what we're here for. Lift up each other, that's what we're here for.

Queenie Yu: 11:45

When you talked about the cross, I was just thinking about what C. S. Lewis said. He said that God whispers to us when we experience pleasure, He speaks to us in our conscience and He shouts when we experience pain. Yeah, that's right, and He was speaking to you in your illness.

Tammy Peterson: 12:08

Yes.

Queenie Yu: 12:09

And drawing you closer to him. And I just remember, right before your confirmation, before the Easter Vigil, you had a lot of pain in your leg, so much so that you had to walk with your back, and you had to walk with a cane, and with difficulty as well, and I genuinely saw it as the devil's way of putting obstacles in your path to get confirmed. But now you're fine, right.

Tammy Peterson: 12:36

But now I'm fine. Yeah, that's right, I'm fine. I still use lumbar support because I think I'm too short for the plane seats and I think that's why I hurt my back maybe. So I think everybody who's like under five foot eight probably should use lumbar support on an airplane if they're taking air or if they're in a car they need lump. You need lumbar support because 95% of people have low back pain, and so it's a. It's a big problem because sitting percent of people have low back pain, and so it's a. It's a big problem because sitting sitting is trouble, and so I would even suggest for you guys to use lumber support in your chairs because, uh, you want to keep and I'm I'm pretty strong, right? I? I had done yoga before. Now I do pilates and I do.

Tammy Peterson: 13:21

I have a teacher who teaches me all the time but I still hurt my back. So it isn't—you can be as well-prepared as you want, but then— anyway, my back got taken out and I couldn't go on tour with my husband. So my husband said you know your daughter's having some troubles. She could probably use your help. So I was no good. I wasn't going to stay at home alone, so I came down here and I didn't even think I was that much help, but she was so grateful to have me here, her mother, who was walking with the cane and barely walking even because I could barely even walk, but every day I walked just a little bit and over the month of going to a chiropractor and getting treatments to stretch me out.

Tammy Peterson: 14:18

See, that's the other thing we have to do is we have to hang.

Tammy Peterson: 14:21

We have to hang from something so that our vertebrae get a little bit of space, and so that's one of the things that we're supposed to do daily to make sure that our spines stay, uh, without any pinched nerves in them, because things, just your, your vertebrae, the, the cushioning between them, it's vulnerable, and so if, if we go out to our kids, play things and hang for a little while and relax, your feet have to be on the ground so that you can actually relax and let your spine lengthen. I did that like every day, every day, every day, and I don't do it, and I don't even do it that much anymore and I should, so that'll remind me to do it. But through that month when I finally, when my month, when my back was better, michaela's situation had resolved and I left and I thought that's strange. That's strange that I hurt my back, came to be with her and through this month of rehabilitation, everything has turned out all right and so God brings good out of everything yeah, yeah, but it's not always easy.

Tammy Peterson: 15:38

Right, like you said, I was in a lot of pain. I didn't know whether at Easter I was going to be able to come to the church and do what I had to do, because I could barely stand up. I was kind of bent over. It was not good, but it was fine. It was fine and it was a lovely day. And from then I got better. And it was a lovely day and from then I got better.

Tammy Peterson: 16:09

So I, just one day at a time, one moment at a time, sometimes one moment at a time and do the next right thing. What's the next right thing? Well, to get your cane and go out and walk for a little while. Maybe you can only go a few steps, but to do it. And you know, at the end of that month, when I got back that I didn't have to use the cane and I could start doing Pilates again, I was so much weaker. I was so much weaker and I thought, gee, you know, if I had just decided I was going to just sit in a scooter and not do anything because my back was hurt, I would have lost all my muscle power. And then how would I have rehabilitated a month later when my back didn't hurt, because then I would be so catastrophically weak that it would take forever for me to rehabilitate. So you know, if you can get up and do the next right thing, get up and do the next right thing. Get up and do the next right thing, like, don't, don't lay in bed in self-pity. Get up, do what you can, rest as much as you need, but get up and do, do what you can and get yourself through that.

Tammy Peterson: 17:17

You know, when I got better and Jordan was sick, that time we went back on tour. When he was getting, you know, I thought you're not better, but you're probably better enough. We could probably go on the book tour, and he wasn't sure that he could do it. But I said, well, I think you could do it. I tried to. I actually was hopeful. I think I was solidly in line with Mother Mary and she was telling me to be hopeful and to persevere. Right, that's what she was telling me to do. So I passed that knowledge on to Jordan and I was hopeful and I was asking him to persevere with me, and so he went back out on tour. But he wasn't well. He was still in a lot of pain and it went on for months and I couldn't make inroads into his recovery.

Tammy Peterson: 18:11

And we were in Detroit, quite close to Toronto, and I thought I'm going to go home. And so I went home and I wanted to be on tour and I wanted to be with my husband, but I wasn't able to. And so I prayed and I said you know, I would really like to be on tour, I like to be with my husband, I don't want to be here by myself. But I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do because what we were doing wasn't working. And I heard a voice say to me get your own hotel room. And I thought, well, that's a strange message. I mean, I didn't see that coming. And so I called a friend who is a spiritual friend of mine, so I was going to listen to what she had to say and I said I think God told me to get my own hotel room. And she said I think that's a good. Get my own hotel room. And she said I think that's a good idea, I think that you ought to do that. And I thought, okay, so I went back on tour and I got my own hotel room and the first night we got there we didn't have a lecture. So Jordan said oh, you can stay with me tonight. I said I have my own hotel room, I think I'll just go stay. And he said really.

Tammy Peterson: 19:26

But over time he came to realize that that gave him more personal space. It gave him more time to do what he needed to do. He could come home after the shows and I wasn't sleeping in the bed, he didn't have to be quiet, he could probably watch a movie after, because he was all wound up from the night of the lecture and everything. And then he could sleep in in the morning and I wasn't trying to, you know, get out of bed and do Pilates early in the morning. And for me, in that other room, I began to open the blinds, do my Pilates and schedule podcasts, which I hadn't been doing Because we were sharing this room, we were too much in each other's way, we weren't taking enough personal space and we weren't doing.

Tammy Peterson: 20:11

I wasn't and I was not doing what I needed to do. If he had a podcast, I made sure that I sat in the corner and read a book in the hotel room, but I wasn't even scheduling mine and read a book in the hotel room, but I wasn't even scheduling mine. So you have to be really careful and see what it is you're doing in your relationship. Are you getting what you need to be the best person that you can be so that you can offer to others what you have to offer, or are you submitting so much of yourself to your husband that you're being squashed? But you know you're doing it to yourself largely because you're not saying what you need. You have to say what you need, and God helped me with that. He spoke to me again and told me what I had to do, and it was nothing that I was thinking. So it was definitely not me.

Tammy Peterson: 21:08

I didn't think that up, it was him. And it's been very good and we've both been very happy with the result of that, because we've become more effective in our pursuit of helping others. So you know, I know it takes a lot of reflection, right, it takes a lot of self-reflection and a lot of listening to hear what God might have to say. And you know, instead of talking all the time and saying what we think is what we think, listening and being attentive, but listening then you'll hear what you need to hear. Yeah.

Queenie Yu: 21:57

And we can learn from Our Lady, because she always listened. There you go, the Gospel says,

Tammy Peterson: 22:04

she pondered things in her heart no, there's so much we have to learn from her. Yes, absolutely, and, and I can't believe all these things are written in the Bible yeah, yeah, and I just wanted to go back just to Father Eric.

Sheila Nonato: 22:22

When you were sick, he had given you a novena to St Josemaria and you were praying it. What day was it when you were told you're fine? Do you remember?

Tammy Peterson: 22:35

It was the fifth day.

Tammy Peterson: 22:36

It was the fifth day, okay, day five. Yeah, fifth day, day five. It was the fifth day, yeah, no, that was lovely. He blessed me and gave me that Novena from St Josemaria Escriva, and it's a Novena for the sick. Nine days of prayer. Nine days of prayer.

Tammy Peterson: 23:02

I was in the hospital, I prayed them, prayed the prayers, and I had had my first surgery. It hadn't gone well. They couldn't find anything they was looking for and you know they had a sophisticated way. That's why I went down there. They had put dye into my lymph system so that my lymph was a color that would show up on an MRI screen, and they thought if they did that, they'd be able to see a plume come through and they would know where the leak was, where the lymph was leaking out of my lymph system. But they didn't see it anywhere, which is kind of remarkable that they couldn't find it yet.

Tammy Peterson: 23:46

I was still wasting away and then they told me they were going to have to cut me open. So the next surgery was going to be coming soon and they had told me I would have to do a fat challenge, so I would have to eat something with fat in it, and I'd been avoiding fat so far, because I wanted the lymph system to rest, and maybe it would heal if it rested, because when you eat fat, that's when the lymph system works hard. And so I ate something that was fatty the night before because I thought they're going to cut me with a knife, so I don't know, it just felt like the right, you know. So those are those moments where God is telling you what to do. So you don't know that you're doing it, because God's telling you to do it, but it seems like the right thing. When something seems like the right thing to do, that's because you're having listening to your intuition and God is nudging you to to, uh, um, do the next right thing. So I ate something with fat and I looked at the the bag, cause there was a bag that was sitting on the side of my abdomen, because there was a tube that was draining this fluid, because if it didn't, then my stomach swelled up so much. Well, draining this fluid, because if it didn't, then my stomach swelled up so much. Well, it wouldn't have been, it would be then wouldn't have been the end of me. So it had a drain on it to keep it reasonably comfortable.

Tammy Peterson: 25:14

And, uh, the next morning I was having breakfast and an intern came and then the head nurse came and they said we'd like you to do a fat challenge. And I said, "h, I did it last night. Oh, they said, well, let's see this bag. So I lift up this bag and it was clear liquid. It looked like urine, it was just clear yellow liquid. Oh, they said there's no fat in the bag because it should be milky. It should be milky because if the lymph is still leaking out and you've eaten fat, then there should be fat in it. They said you're better. I said, oh, that means I'm better. That had been months. Right, that had been months.

Tammy Peterson: 26:01

And so then, within half an hour, I was in the hospital and they'd taken out my IV and this other plug that was in me. Oh, and I had a TPN diet tube that was here, so where you eat and the tube just takes the food to your heart. So they took that out. So they took out all these things and I went to the Airbnb where my husband was there and my mother-in-law was there and my sister-in-law and her kids and my son and his wife, and we all were together and I didn't have anything attached to me and I looked at my phone and I realized it was August 19th, it was our anniversary, and that was the day I told Jordan I was better.

Tammy Peterson: 26:48

I had no idea it was that day until the day was practically half over before I understood that this was the day that I was healed was my anniversary. The doctors didn't know what to say. They said sometimes when they put the dye in people's lymph systems, the hole will close. And they had put dye in my system. So that may have been the mechanical reason, but that had happened. On the day I said it was going to happen was something that was difficult for my husband to ignore, let's put it that way. So I think it was good for his faith to have me healed that day. It was a miracle that he couldn't he couldn't talk his way out of yeah.

Sheila Nonato: 27:50

Yeah, and finally, Queenie, what can we learn from your friendship? What have you learned and what can we learn from your friendship with Mrs Peterson? Can we learn from?

Sheila Nonato: 28:02

your friendship with Mrs Peterson.

Queenie Yu: 28:04

Well, I was thinking, as I mentioned, when I first went to the hospital, we weren't friends, we were just acquaintances. But it was through the rosary that we developed this friendship and this bond, and I was thinking that anybody could do the same thing, that anybody could do the same thing. Some people are shy to approach people that they don't know well or they think, oh, I'm not gonna pray the rosary with this person because maybe they're not Catholic or they're not taking their faith too seriously and I don't want to impose. But no, go for it. People are seeking comfort, so bring them to Mary and, as I said, anybody could do it. So if somebody is a senior and she's experiencing a lot of aches and pains, she could pray the rosary with somebody, or a child. Anybody can do it. It's not rocket science and it will really change somebody's life, as we have seen with Tammy.

Co-Host: 29:08

Yeah.

Sheila Nonato: 29:09

Yes, beautiful. And finally, Mrs Peterson, I just wanted to go back to. You had mentioned this phrase, "the next right thing, a lot throughout the interview. So that is a phrase that you got from your father, your beloved father, is that correct that that's sort of what he had imparted to you?

Tammy Peterson: 29:29

The next right thing. I think that came from my beloved husband. I think that's who it came from. Wow, okay, the next right thing. I think that's a Carl Jung. It might be a Carl Jung phrase. If I got it from my husband, it easily could be a Carl Jung phrase. If I got it from my husband, it easily could be a Carl Jung phrase because he's studied Jung for such a very long time. But I think it's a beautiful and succinct phrase because we often wonder what we should be doing and if we just think that it's up to us just to pay attention and listen. So to listen and we have eyes and we have ears, that's what our senses are for to pay attention, and we will see or hear, or feel, or intuit.

Tammy Peterson: 30:26

The next right thing to do, and that's all we have to do, is to take the next right step. We don't have to think about solving the world problems or to save the world. What we need to do is to want to do good. That's our vision, is to do good to find heaven, really to find the kingdom of God. We want to find what is, you know, the ultimate beauty in the world. But all we can do is to take is to do the next right thing, because here we are on earth, we're mortal, we have feet and hands and a brain, and we're mortal, so we have to work our magic in the world. So we do that, one step at a time, but we don't know what the outcome is going to be. And we don't worry about the outcome, because that's not our problem. Our problem is the process to take the next right step. It's process, not outcome. The outcome is not up to us.

Sheila Nonato: 31:40

Yeah, Thank you very much for joining me today, for sharing the beginning of how your friendship began, rooted in love for our Lord and our Lady, and I'm sure it will give a lot of inspiration to many of our listeners out there who might be going through their own crosses and will see how God can enter into their lives, how they can turn to Mother Mary as their mother during their difficult times, and I look forward to hopefully seeing you again. So, God bless and thank you so much for taking this time. Appreciate it.

Sheila Nonato: 32:17

Thank you. Thank you, it was great to see you both. Thank you. Thank you. Great to talk to you, and my kids say, "ello, thank you.

Tammy Peterson: 32:21

That's very

Tammy Peterson: 32:25

Good luck with your podcast.

Sheila Nonato: 32:27

Oh, Thank you so much, Thank you, God bless, bye.

Queenie Yu: 32:29

Thank you, thanks, bye.

Sheila Nonato: 32:32

Lent is our journey towards Calvary, where we stand at the foot of the cross with Mother Mary, st John and those who loved him. When Jesus turned to His mother and said, "woman, behold your son. And to St John he said, behold your mother, the story came full circle and it was complete. Woman helped in the redemption of man, as Jesus' sacrifice redeemed us all, and we see how Mary is the new Eve. Mary became our mother, a mother to all. May the story of Tammy and Queenie's faith and friendship inspire and strengthen you in your faith and motherhood, especially during this Lenten season. My family wishes you a blessed and holy Lent Until next time when we turn the tables and my daughter interviews me about the retreat I recently went on and the spiritual nuggets that are helping me in my journey of motherhood. Take care, thank you and God bless. Thank you for listening to the Veil and Armor podcast.

Co-Host: 33:59

I invite you to share this with another Catholic mom today. Please subscribe to our podcast and YouTube channel and please spread the word. Let's Be Brave, let's Be Bold and Be Blessed together.