21. Faith, Fairytales and Art with Ascension Press Author Izabela Ciesinska: Helping kids find their God-inspired purpose

Izabela Ciesinska, celebrated author and illustrator, takes us on an inspiring journey from her childhood in Communist Poland to her flourishing creative career in Canada, all framed by her profound return to the Catholic faith. We unpack the heartfelt inspiration behind her debut children's book, "The Little Donkey and God's Big Plan," where a single Biblical passage sparked deep reflections on God-inspired purpose and self-discovery. Isabella also delves into her love for European fairy tales, revealing how their moral clarity and enchanting illustrations have shaped her unique artistic style.

Through a Christian artist's lens, Izabela gives her impressions on the controversy surrounding the Olympics' Opening Ceremonies, critically looking at the alignment with beauty, truth, and goodness. Izabela underscores the importance of anchoring art and ambition in service to God and society.

In a beautiful testimony to the transformative power of faith and art, Izabela shares her personal journey back to Christianity. A road trip through Arizona's majestic landscapes reignited her belief in a creator, leading to a spiritual rebirth and a deepened commitment to Catholicism. Her renewed faith not only inspired her children's book but also fueled her passion for introducing beauty and art to children, advocating for creating meaningful experiences at home. We close with reflections on the community's vital role in nurturing spiritual growth.

Connect with Izabela:
-X/Twitter: https://www.x.com/@IZZYpics
-Website: https://www.izzipics.com/
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/@izzipix

Connect with Sheila:
- Instagram
- X / Twitter
-Email: veilandarmour@gmail.com
- Website
https://veilandarmour.com
https://veilandarmour.buzzsprout.com
https://www.sheilanonato.com

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Chapters

• 0:02 Izabela Ciesinska Inspirations and Realizations
• 16:05 Reaction to role reversal featured in movies, a discussion on classical literature and traditioanl beauty
• 22:19 Discovering God Through Art and Faith
• 28:46 Nurturing Beauty and Faith in Children
• 42:48 The Journey Back to God and the Catholic Faith

Transcript

Sheila Nonato: 0:02

Welcome to Veil and Armour, Izabela Ciesinska. You're an Ascension Press author and illustrator and did you want to maybe start off with a prayer, if you don't mind joining me? Yes, of course. Okay, let's say the Hail Mary In the name of the Father and of the Son, of the Holy Spirit. Amen, Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen, In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you for joining us and I'm just going to introduce you, our listeners, to Izabela.

Sheila Nonato: 0:41

She was born in Communist Poland. She grew up reading European fairy tales, which inspired her love of books and illustration. When she moved to Canada, she came across animated films for the first time, which inspired her illustration style. She went on to have an athletic career in tennis and competed for Florida Gulf Coast University, where she graduated in criminal forensics. After graduation, she pursued a career in film and illustration. Her debut short film premiered at the Montreal World Film Festival in 2010, and she went on to illustrate for clients like Oxford University Press, the Concordia Publishing House, the United Methodist Publishing House and the Pentecostal Publishing House. "The Little Donkey and God's Big Plan is the author's debut, which she's publishing with the Catholic publisher Ascension Press. She's a cradle Catholic that fell away from the faith a few years ago and recently returned with a deeper understanding and appreciation for the faith. In her free time she likes reading good books, discovering great cinema, taking very long walks and watching cute animal videos on YouTube.

Sheila Nonato: 1:52

Welcome, Izabela,

Izabela Ciesinska: 1:53

Thank you for having me. Sheila

Sheila Nonato: 1:56

And this is our second time. Unfortunately, we did record something, I think it's in May. It was an awesome interview and there was some technical issues, so hopefully today we will not have any of those and we will be able to publish this. But welcome, and I just wanted to talk about let's go right into the book. You have a new children's book and I actually I love this book and, like I was saying in the first interview, when I was reading it, coming to the end, I was just filled with great emotion because I could sort of sense how nowadays I do have young children. So in this time of childhood it's a time of innocence, also vulnerability, and going through sort of a transformation, trying to find your place in the world, going through sort of a transformation, trying to find your place in the world, and the story of "he little donkey. It is mirroring that path of self-discovery and transformation. And can you tell us what was the inspiration of that story?

Izabela Ciesinska: 2:57

Well, that was at the early stages of me returning back to Christianity not Catholicism yet, but I have been.

Izabela Ciesinska: 3:08

You know, I have gone astray for about 20 years meddling in all kinds of stuff and in 2014, I started kind of returning to it and by the time I started writing "he Little Donkey, I was already reading the Bible not every day, but occasionally and I came across the line that Jesus tells the apostles to go and bring the donkey to him, and that line just struck me because it just felt immortal, like what that little donkey accomplished, just doing exactly what he was designed to do. I am now reading it in the Bible and it just struck me because it immediately translated my mind to what a divine purpose is. And if a little donkey can serve Jesus Christ and contribute to the salvation of mankind, which is what he did, jesus would have accomplished it anyway. We know that. But the little donkey facilitated in the way that he was designed and that struck me and I thought I think there's a story here about purpose for children and for adults that I can expand on.

Sheila Nonato: 4:28

Beautiful and in terms of, I guess, your love for reading. You mentioned in your bio that you had sent me that European fairy tales. They had sort of this. It was a catalyst for you wanting to read more and develop a love for love for books. What was it about these fairy tales that captured your imagination?

Izabela Ciesinska: 4:51

Well, two things. One, they always had a good moral at the end. There was no confusion, but there were no moral lines that were being blurred. Um, the, the classic fairy tales, but what, uh, what?

Izabela Ciesinska: 5:06

What struck me as a child more was, of course, the artwork. Uh, when I was growing up, we, we still had the fairy tales that were traditionally illustrated with a very heavy european style. That was a mesh between, you know, victorian illustration and even earlier, and, and it was just to me so beautiful, every illustration was a work of art. We really don't see illustrations like this anymore. You have to go to a museum, which I went to two years ago, to look at some Victorian children's books, and there was such a difference in style.

Izabela Ciesinska: 5:44

So I think the people back then were just more connected to the principles of beauty. I think, and, kind of speaking, more to my love of reading, I started reading the classics this year. I just told myself I think I need to try the classics, and so I'm reading Wuthering Heights now and I read Jane Eyre just a few weeks ago. And let me tell you there is such a difference in the use of language as well. In Jane Eyre, every chapter appeals to God or Jesus Christ, and it's not a story about Christianity. It's a story about just a girl going through her life, her difficult life, and every chapter the author appeals to Christianity, which further made me understand those people were far more connected to the principles of Christianity and the principles of beauty and what makes good art. So I noticed that very early on in the classical fairy tales.

Sheila Nonato: 6:45

What was your favorite fairy tale?

Izabela Ciesinska: 6:49

Oh, man, that changed. I would say the one that I remember from the classics, from that time when I only knew the books. I would say Rapunzel and Snow White, oh, and of course the Little Red Riding Hood. But which was my favorite? I I don't my. My taste changed when I came to Canada because my love of books.

Izabela Ciesinska: 7:22

Then, you know, I discovered animation, which opened another new world. By discovered animation. I mean, you know, I grew up in Communist Poland. We didn't have access to Western animation. So when I saw Bambi for the first time and I saw the Little Mermaid for the first time, I was amazed. So for the longest time the Little Mermaid was my favorite animation or fairy tale as my favorite animation or fairy tale.

Izabela Ciesinska: 7:43

And then, when I became a faithful Christian, I was like, oh, oh, my mind changed on a lot of those fairy tales. Because you know the Little Red Riding Hood, that came from a time where in the Black Forest in Bavaria, children were attacked by wolves. You know, people lived aside and there was a warning for what happens when you don't walk the path you're supposed to walk, when you don't go straight to grandma's house. But the other fairy tales, like the Little Mermaid, only later, many years later, like decades later, did I realize, oh, that there's some occultism in there, especially the new ones, the classics.

Izabela Ciesinska: 8:23

There was, I think, more occultism in there, especially the new ones, the classics. There was, I think, more of a moral in there that don't meddle in the dark stuff. The Little Mermaid actually pays with her life. In the new one she gets rewarded right. So there's this confusion in the modern age. We took those fairy tales and we did kind of invert them. So even though they were very beautiful and they still are aesthetically, I hate to admit it now that my favorite fairy tale was in fact not something I would recommend to kids right now.

Sheila Nonato: 9:00

You know that they are remaking, as you were saying. They're remaking all these Disney classics to children and are you saying that they might not be as good of a representation of what the author had intended for those fairy tales?

Izabela Ciesinska: 9:18

Oh, 100%. When you look at the first Disney trailer of the newest Snow White and the dwarves anyone who's seen that old trailer knows what I'm talking about Then there's just no way that the people of Bavaria from like 200 years ago that that's how they envisioned it. There was no gender bending is what I'm saying. There was no confusion about this stuff. There was no confusion about the role of a female and the role of a prince.

Izabela Ciesinska: 9:51

They still kind of cultivated the code of chivalry from the medieval times where the man was the man and he was supposed to protect the woman, not because she's weak, but because she represents that vulnerable life bearer in society, for which, which, which the kingdom completely falls apart if you don't take care of the most vulnerable and the and the bringers and protectors of life. So so the old fairy tales still had that. They were built on those classical principles uh, sensible principles I would say that built a very strong modern civilization that are now being completely inverted, and the media is always the first to invert it so there were morals being taught, as you had mentioned, I think, even walt disney back in the day.

Sheila Nonato: 10:40

He would have a show and he would first, he would have children sitting down listening to him before the, the film uh started or the cartoon, and he would tell them the moral. There was a a good news story to this. You know, not specifically christian, overtly christian, but just you know, serve others, help others, help your mom and dad, um, but just you know, serve others, help others, help your mom and dad. But now when you watch shows I've been watching some of my kids shows there are no like Peppa Pig and all that. It's really more entertainment and not really learning so much. What has changed? Why do we? I guess we're more sensitive to teaching. You know we don't want to impose our values. Is that what's happening right now?

Izabela Ciesinska: 11:22

I think it's a long battle, sheila. I think we've been fighting this battle of liberalism for a long time. And I don't mean this politically, I really mean this philosophically. Philosophically it's all the way back in the Bible, where people had a problem with godly order and they made it very clear that they have a problem with godly order. And these were the people that were, you know, eventually wiped out by God. How long can you keep that kind of disorder going? And it wasn't conquered back then. It continues to grow and I think the modern age is just a rebellion against—it's an overt, I would say adolescent a very immature rebellion against the sensible things, the moral lessons and the values and the virtues that these stories taught.

Izabela Ciesinska: 12:25

They made great contributions to society. That was the whole point of mythology was to teach people that the journey of the hero who conquers these difficulties and returns to his society with this knowledge or whatever thing of value he brings back Now, that's why everything is just mindless entertainment today, because when the rebels and those who value personal liberty which almost always translates into hedonism when they prioritize that above all else, then you will see it rippling down from all the positions which they occupied, which I would say they mostly gravitate towards positions of power, because they have a lot to gain by dismantling legal and philosophical structures that force bad behavior into good behavior. So they have no interest in creating stories that will, uh, guide people, particularly children, to adopt certain behaviors that will not only benefit their own lives for greater performance, but society.

Sheila Nonato: 13:33

So that's why we're seeing it and what do you think about sort of a role reversal? You had mentioned about the hero, the chivalry aspect of movies before I was watching on Netflix I believe it's a new version of Cinderella and I think she had a choice of the prince getting married or her pursuing a career, pursuing a career, and it was really sort of, you know, she was very torn because she she loved this prince but she wanted to pursue her dream and she couldn't have both. It's sort of a either or choice. What do you think about sort of the role of reversal, now that you know I'm a woman and I don't need't need men, and and that's the end of the movie.

Izabela Ciesinska: 14:21

Well, I'll tell you that, yeah, when women say they don't need men, it's just so laughable, literally laughable. My mom and I laugh every time we drive on the highway and these poor men are there, sweating, digging the highway, not a single woman in sight, you know. So it's always the women that shout we don't need men, where they're gravitating towards the easiest jobs, the most privileged jobs that actually are not contributing much to society. Let's get real about it, and I know it sounds harsh, but I believe it's the truth. I think let's get real about it, and I know it sounds harsh, but I believe it's the truth. I think, yes, there is a role for women to claim, a liberty that expresses their creativity and their talents in a way that serves even beyond society 100%. A woman can be a mother, she can be an author, she can be an author, she can be a great artist, she can change the world that way for the better. There's no reason why you can't do that, but to prioritize and pursue those positions that are inherently not for women, that are actually, I believe, demasculating and, in a way, castrating masculinity in our society.

Izabela Ciesinska: 15:40

Take a female general in an army you're essentially asking the young men to follow the orders of a mom figure. That is very unhealthy for young men. Young men need a masculine figure that they highly and deeply admire, a figure that has already embodied masculine values and virtues which they are not yet, have not cultivated themselves, and now they can follow. This whole inversion has now painted this picture where you're putting young men the future, the guardians of our society in a way where they're now forced to follow their mom or to conform to some gender-bending falsehood. It's not going to benefit society in the least in the long run.

Izabela Ciesinska: 16:30

I believe it's just not going to produce strong men, and we absolutely need strong men. And in order for strong men to become strong, we need women that are very secure in their feminine, because it is feminine women that inspire strong men to eventually give up their lives for something greater. If they don't feel that inspiration, what exactly are they going to sacrifice themselves for? That's why the army the numbers of men signing up to the army in the States is dropping. It's like record high numbers. They're not signing up. What for?

Sheila Nonato: 17:05

That's interesting and I'm just wondering. So I'm going to be. I don't want to, I don't want to say devil's advocate, because I never want to be that, I'm just going to be talking from the other side. So in Canada we do have a female general and my husband is in the army. So he really admires this person and she got there based on her merit. She is absolutely qualified and he served under her and she is fabulous, a great patriot and warrior for Canada. Patriot and Warrior for Canada.

Sheila Nonato: 17:43

But, as you're saying, not everybody is born or is skilled in all the male professions or professions that were traditionally male. What, in terms Ceremonies aspirations of women, trying to sort of promote careers that are not traditionally, trying to sort of promote careers that are not traditionally female? How do we go about this in terms of you know, with my children, with children in general? How do we sort of approach the subject of you know when they ask what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, nowadays, I think you're not, you're not allowed to, like, gender. You know to speak in a gendered language, right? How do we approach this as Catholics, as people of faith, in terms of fostering imagination, creativity and also encouraging them to dream, dream big. How do we approach this? On the one hand hand, there's sort of this politicized movement to get women into certain professions that are traditionally male. How do we, how do we navigate this?

Izabela Ciesinska: 18:48

I think the and the kingdom of God. If a child has a burning desire and a talent to back it up, that perhaps puts them outside of a pattern in terms of vocation, that may very well be alignment with their gender. Let's say, a female astronaut, even a female general, so long as it is backed by merit and it is not there for that political reason or for ego. I'm going to be the first woman, this or I'm a woman and I can hear me roar. That's not how we serve God. We serve God by using our gifts and our predispositions that he put there in order to serve the world, and you will end up with some women and men that absolutely excel and they excel not just in terms of genius, like Elon Musk, but they excel outside of their gender role. But it has to be merit-based and it has to be service-based. If it's based on anything other, particularly ego or political, it's going to, I think, contribute negatively to society.

Sheila Nonato: 20:09

So we're going to go to another controversial topic the Olympics. All right, so I'm not an artist, but I do appreciate art. The Olympic ceremonies caused a great controversy, so much so that the Ayatollah of Iran also even was indignant about it. I think he said, quote respect for Jesus is an indisputable, definite matter for Muslims. We condemn these insults directed at the holy figures of divine religions, including Jesus Christ. So it even offended non-Christians. What are your thoughts about? Because the Olympics is supposed to be sort of the highest achievement of an athlete, and so the organizing committee had four years to come up with a masterpiece, really, really for the world to showcase the cultural heritage and treasures of France. And they came up with what we saw, what has been interpreted as a slight to the slight, I guess, is maybe a softer term to describe it a jab at Christianity at the Last Supper, Although they were trying to say it's not the Last Supper, it's Greek mythology. You're an artist. What did you see? Please explain to us. What did we see?

Izabela Ciesinska: 21:30

Well, we did see the worldly, I guess, the worldly definition of art and the worldly liberal expression of art, which usually relies on shock value because it doesn't have much substance to rely on, but I would say the godly expression of art. It has to be an expression of beauty, truth and goodness. Truth and goodness the beauty is only a tool to attract the eye to the truth, and the truth is the thing that sinks into the heart in order to inspire good action, goodness. So that kind of art, I think it takes a lot to create the true beautiful kind of art. I think is it takes a lot to create the true beautiful kind of art. I mean to even.

Izabela Ciesinska: 22:19

You know, you take any of the artists that contributed to, you know any of the art in the Vatican, and I'm talking mostly about the Renaissance, the classical art. These were masters, and they were masters at the age of 17. When you look at Michelangelo's sculptures from when he was 17, they were, I mean, mind-blowing. You don't have artists like this today, let alone 17-year-olds. So these people apprenticed from the age of like 12 in order to master a skill that would allow them to get close to creating an image that represented whatever the divine inspired in them.

Izabela Ciesinska: 23:02

These kinds of artists. They're very few today. They were always few, but back then society cultivated them. Today, it not only doesn't cultivate them, it actually glorifies the inversion of truth, beauty and goodness, which is the shock value, worldly kind of part. And so that's what we saw today, because so much of society has accepted the rejection of godly values and principles. This is how they celebrate, and I've had a few discussions with my friends about this, my friends, my acquaintances from film industry and they found it hilarious. They found it hilarious, they found it artistic, they found it, of course, brave and bold, um, but, uh, they, they found it that way because they themselves have rejected, uh, god in their heart. So anyone who loves God and who wants to be further, I think, guided by God's knowledge and truth and the gifts he gives us through art, to us, to those kinds of people, it wasn't art, it was a clown show, and it qualifies as art as much as a bad clown show can qualify as art, as you're saying that.

Sheila Nonato: 24:26

I'm just wondering um, I don't. Well, I feel like they would not do this to another religion because it would be harder. But who knows, knows, maybe they would have. Is it difficult to be a Christian artist?

Izabela Ciesinska: 24:42

You know it's difficult. If you care about worldly success, If you want to make a lot of money, if you want to appeal to Hollywood, if you want to appeal to big brands, you're going to suffer. But if you don't care about any of those things which I don't think we should, if your greatest concern or desire is to know God and to serve Him in the best way you can, not only is it not difficult, it is the most fulfilling thing you can do. I enjoy my Christian projects far more because now they are personal to me. I feel like I'm laying down a tiny, tiny, tiny little brick within the kingdom.

Sheila Nonato: 25:32

Every time I create something Christian, it feels different how do you discover God in art, in your art?

Izabela Ciesinska: 25:47

I'm not sure you discover God in your own art. I think actually, actually I was going to answer it differently, but now that I'm speaking, I think the primary desire has to be to know God and as the as you're creating like, I'm working on my first Christian novel now and I knew what I wanted it to be about, but it turns out I'm kind of writing about myself and my journey. It's not about me, it's it. It's a biblical character and his pursuit of God, and even though I had the plot very clear in my mind, as I write I suppose these mysteries unveil themselves to the point where I almost don't feel like I'm writing it.

Izabela Ciesinska: 26:42

It's the, you know, the Holy Spirit, and I think one of the keys is prayer. Every time I sit down to write I pray and I ask the Holy Spirit and God and Jesus to use my body as a vessel to write what they believe, what they know the world needs, and so I suppose, just dedicating oneself as a vessel to God, then you open the door to discover things through your own creation that he will kind of guide and create through you. So I guess that the primary step is always surrender, surrender to God, dedicate your work to him, ask him to guide your every process, every session, and then you yourself, you're going to surprise yourself.

Sheila Nonato: 27:35

Wow, thanks for sharing that. Wow, when you mentioned your return to God, when did that happen? Because you said you were a cradle Catholic. Then you fell away from the faith. Sharing that, wow. When. When you mentioned your return to god, when did when did that happen? Because you said you were a cradle catholic. Then you fell away from the faith for a few years. When did that sort of light bulb moment come that you, you wanted to return?

Izabela Ciesinska: 27:55

the, the real the, the big light bulb moment was my trip to ari Um. Before then, I was in 2014,. That was the last film. Ironically, my last film, uh shoot, brought me to God. Um, I left one and I went into the other. Uh, by then I was already, uh, I was uh, I was uh very deep into atheism. My father had passed a year earlier and I was already like five years in. That was around the time where the new age, the new atheist movement, was very, very big. And they got to me. They sound, they are very smart, they're very articulate. And they got to me. They sound, they are very smart, they're very articulate. And they got to me. And and so, in 2014, I was already a full blown atheist.

Izabela Ciesinska: 28:46

And we're driving from Toronto to California and the Arizona moment we entered Arizona, I just I mean like five minutes later I was a full blown believer. Maybe I didn't believe in a Christian God and let alone Catholicism, but I was a full-blown believer. Maybe I didn't believe in a Christian God, let alone Catholicism, but I was convinced that there was a creator. And the reason was that Arizona is just so unique and the landscape is so majestic. There's this primal force there that's blended with some sort of sub, uh, uh, sublime painting. It's like beauty Turrone force in in one, uh, and that really struck me. I mean it's so overwhelming. And there the feeling there is different. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because it's not, uh, the civilization hasn't touched it and you are one-on-one with nature Mass and the desert. There's something so special in the desert that by the time we emerged from Arizona five hours later Mass I was just yeah, (OCIA )- Order of Christian Initiation of Adults - I was convinced that there's a creator.

Izabela Ciesinska: 29:55

And then, unfortunately, because I lacked the Turrone, foundation, the Christian foundation, I kind of strayed a God bit and, uh, um, looked for god in new age and and, uh, all kinds of strange philosophies, hermeticism, all kinds of stuff, um and uh that it brought me to prosperity gospel, because, strangely, prosperity gospel and the self-manifestation I can accomplish anything, I can create my reality they kind of overlap, um, and so that little overlap segued me into christianity, um, and after staying there for maybe a few months, I really I started developing a greater fascination for the theology than that I can make my dreams come true part. And so that's when I started reading the Bible more, listening to a lot more podcasts, and the more I started to learn about Christianity and its foundations, its biblical foundations, the more I started to be drawn to the conservative practice of Christianity. I realized you can't practice it any other way. You have to commit to knowing it, to integrating it. Um, and so that's. That's where I've been, I think.

Sheila Nonato: 31:11

Uh,

Izabela Ciesinska: 31:11

I guess the light bulb moment was arizona. And the second light bulb moment into catholicism was when I started writing the little donkey, my children's book, and Ascension Press decided to publish it. And when I had an interview with them, I realized how much I lack as a Christian, as a Catholic, and I felt not right with myself that here I am writing a book for this very faithful Catholic publisher, to a faithful Catholic audience, while I myself am lukewarm. And so that's when I decided to step to my local church, heard Father Peter Turrone speak and I was like no, that's it, I'm home and I haven't missed them. Well, he would say I have missed them, and I have missed them when I visit my mom. Sometimes I'm gone for a week, so I don't make it to Mass for this church, but whenever I'm here in Toronto, which is 99% of the time, I always attend a Mass. And I'm starting RCIA (O. C. I. A. - Order of Christian Intiation for Adults) next week, so I'm almost done.

Sheila Nonato: 32:18

That's awesome, and shout out to Father Turrone he is such a holy priest, thanks be to God. Yeah, I, I'm so just inspired by your story, uh, your story of conversion, and I'm so elated for you that you're you're starting rcia. Are you thinking of Easter time around Easter time to become a?

Sheila Nonato: 32:39

catholic.

Izabela Ciesinska: 32:40

I, I think, so. I. I think that's how long the program is right. We're starting next week and then it goes. So, yeah, yeah, I guess we're whenever, assuming I pass, I don't know how it works, I don't know what I think you'll pass.

Sheila Nonato: 32:58

I have a slight idea that you know just joking, no yeah.

Sheila Nonato: 33:01

Well, the your testimony is, yeah, just moves, moved me to tears, to be honest, Just beautiful, and I just wanted to go back to. You were talking about your children's book. Going back to children and, given that you know, there's so much noise right nowadays social media, video games, Netflix, phones, even computers, so many things that can take children away from learning about art, what is real art, what is good art how do parents, where do we start? How do we introduce art to kids that you know they just want to play on their iPads or whatever? How do we start? How do we inspire or sort of jumpstart that love for beauty?

Izabela Ciesinska: 33:52

Well, I would say it starts with having these, creating beautiful experiences in your house. I would definitely limit the phone and tablet because you have no control, and that is a wide range of worlds I would say that a kid has access to and I would really limit that. But something as simple as having beautiful classical music always playing in the background, making sure that beautiful paintings are there, family outings to a museum to show them the classics, a beautiful trip to the Vatican or a medieval village in southern France to show them how these Catholic cities were built, you know the difference between a society that values God and lives for God versus society that doesn't right. Taking a kid out to a beautiful theater. You know, and assuming maybe parents not everyone can afford that, of course, uh, them being very, very selective with one's books. Have, have those, have a few beautifully illustrated, uh, books from from the victorian time, like, like, uh, the velveteen rabbit. You know the velveteen rabbit, such a beautiful story, a beautifully illustrated Bible. That is, I think you know, so inspiring.

Izabela Ciesinska: 35:29

I still remember the Bible that inspired me. I mean it was a Jehovah's Witness Bible. So I understand the contradiction in that. But that children's Bible that they gave to my family, um, because they used to give them away at the time in poland. Um, I I still remember the impact that those images had on you know, because it was so beautifully illustrated. So so, to really have in your house beauty and to be highly selective with, um, the the things that you expose your children to at a very young age, because if they familiarize themselves or if they grow up with uh, true, truly beautiful music, truly beautiful movies they're hard to find, but keep those in your house Then when they go out there, they're going to have that comparison. When they're surrounded by true, profound beauty and they go out in the world and they see that shallow, empty, trendy stuff, they're going to be better equipped to resist it. And eventually they will.

Izabela Ciesinska: 36:46

Because let me tell you my dad, when I was growing up my dad, when we used to travel to tennis practices, he would always play his music in the car. He wouldn't tolerate me playing my music in the car and I used to be angry at him back then. But now I'm grateful because guess what music has survived in my heart today? I don't listen to the stuff I used to listen to in high school. It's unthinkable, right? I listened to the classics that my dad introduced me to, and now, as an older person, I'm able to appreciate it more. So it does stick with you. It does stick with you even if the kids rebel for a time because they want to fit in. Eventually, what you put in them when they're very, very young, um you, you will simply equip them, who eventually choose the better stuff over the not good stuff.

Sheila Nonato: 37:43

Yes, and the classics? They're classics for a reason, right, there's no end date to them. They're always relevant. And, yeah, what my husband has been doing is actually letting the kids listen to jazz. He likes jazz and Frank Sinatra, so it's another time and another era. But you know what? I don't know? They don't know anything else. I guess right now, right now, their world is still innocent, so when they go out into the school, it might change. But, as you were saying, to be grounded in beauty, honesty, truth. I think that, hopefully, that will equip children nowadays to be able to discern what is good for them and what will enrich their lives, instead of taking away from it or just wasting time. Right? Was there anything else that you wanted to add?

Izabela Ciesinska: 38:43

Yeah, when you said when kids go to school, man, I don't have children, but if I did I would really, if you can, homeschool, homeschool. If you can't, homeschool Catholic school only and really pay attention to the school board, make sure they're real practicing Catholics that are not going to derail the system, the Catholic system, into the worldly one. They're there to preserve. We, as Catholics, are there to preserve the ancient tradition, not to please the world. That's why we have that separation.

Izabela Ciesinska: 39:27

Anyone who wants to join our churches door's always wide open, but we don't conform to the world, and I think that's important because it's going to take parents to really say no, a big, bold capital, no when it comes to the worldly things. Because, no matter how well you run things in your home, if your kid is spending six hours in school and the school is indo, indoctrinating them with with unholy things, it will have its impact, um, and it's really going to take parents to, to not just parents, um, but society, but but those who believe in those Christian values. There's no other way forward. We have to defend them and we cannot send our children into the wolf den, um. So I would be very, at this stage, I feel like it's, it's unsafe to say, to send children into the, into a public school, because you just don't know.

Sheila Nonato: 40:33

You don't know what they're going to come home with wow, um, as you were saying, that we go back to our roots and the foundation and introduce kids at an early age what is what's the difference between beauty and something that's not is very, is very important, as you were saying, so that they will develop these skills of discernment.

Sheila Nonato: 40:58

And also going back to when you had your reversion experience, your conversion experience, that you went back to God, and I feel like you know, as our society now a lot of it is anti-God, anti-christian God anyway, that we have kind of lost our way and we sort of need that sort of guiding presence, guiding force to return to our foundation so that we are able to also equip our children to be great discerners at what is true and what is not. And I appreciate you coming on and on our podcast and it's fall and, yes, school is back in session and I do highly recommend your book, "he Little Donkey, to the younger grades there. I mean, I am not a younger grade, obviously, but I did immensely enjoy it, so I guess I shouldn't put an age limit on that. But yeah, I thank you so much for coming on. And was there anything else you wanted to add?

Izabela Ciesinska: 42:01

No, no, just thank you for having me, sheila. Um, I always enjoy talking to you about these subjects and uh, and hope to meet you one day.

Sheila Nonato: 42:29

Have a blessed, blessed weekend. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your story Because I think yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to impact somebody hearing your story.

Izabela Ciesinska: 42:48

Because there are a lot of us out there. Who you know fell away I also fell away in university and but god and mother mary brought me back. So anyway, Praise God. Sometimes we have to fall away, like paul did. Uh, sometimes the converts are the are the strongest advocates because they've seen the results.

Sheila Nonato: 43:00

Yeah, exactly, we've come back from the wilderness, right? Don't go there. Yeah, yeah, we don't want to be there anymore. Anyway, have a good afternoon. Thank you for spending a friday afternoon talking to me, anyway I would, I would, I.

Izabela Ciesinska: 43:15

I wouldn't want to be anywhere else having these conversations about Christ with you, especially Sheila, so articulate I would. This is the way I want to spend my Friday take care bye.